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Nov 2018
12:44pm, 16 Nov 2018
6,052 posts
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larkim
Interesting Dvorak, I was just contemplating this in relation to my better half.
Two years ago she followed the MyAsics plans (now defunct) which effectively did lots of faster or at best grey area running, and very little slow running. She progressed long runs and achieved a 1:59 half (beating her expectations) and got down to low 25min at 5k.
She then had a skiing injury which stopped progress, and since coming back has really struggled to find any pace. That all coincided with me becoming aware that for me slowing down training runs (and increasing volume of course) translated directly into more 5k / HM pace. So I've suggested the same to her, don't worry about pace, run slowly, don't go chasing training PBs, watch HR, keep it low etc.
And lo-and-behold she continues to stagnate in terms of pace, stuck at struggling to break 28mins at 5k. Most of her miles are at 10+min/mile.
Year Miles Runs Length Pace Hours
2013 154
42
3.67 9 17 23.8
2014 303
70
4.33 9 19 47.0
2015 354
89
3.98 9 17 54.8
2016 722
123
5.87 9 49 118.1 <Injury in April after PBs in spring
2017 495
104
4.76 10 0 82.5
2018 630
178
3.53 10 22 108.9
Maybe in encouraging her to run slower I've zapped her speed! She's getting a little frustrated, and whilst there are always other things at play it definitely looks like slowing down her average pace of running by over 1min/mile correlates well with slowing down her 5k parkrun capability.
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Nov 2018
12:47pm, 16 Nov 2018
6,053 posts
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larkim
Yuk, thought I had that table better formatted.
Here as a picture:-
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Nov 2018
1:02pm, 16 Nov 2018
1,542 posts
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J2R
It really depends on what you do with the 20% of your running which isn't slow. If you just slow down all your running, you will run slower in races, I have no doubt. But that's not what HR training is about. For me, the vast majority of my running is easy, yes, nice conversational pace. But the rest is HARD, really punishing! This is where the speed comes from, on a good aerobic base built with the easy miles.
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Nov 2018
1:08pm, 16 Nov 2018
6,355 posts
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The_Saint
Bloody hell, if I read this thread before taking up running I would probably have given it a miss on the grounds of infinite complexity with an interestingly thin evidence base e.g the dogmatic quote on the right which has exactly as much evidence in its favour as an old lady who came up to me when I had stopped during a run to tell me that running would destroy my heart valves as it had done to her son.
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Nov 2018
1:14pm, 16 Nov 2018
16,943 posts
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Dvorak
I'd say that firstly, Mrs Larkim did pretty well off fairly low mileage pre-accident, very unfortunate that the skiing incident happened. Although her distance probably did increase before the PBs? in a good example of just "run more, get better".
As for now, maybe training is a bit one paced? There are certainly a lot more individual runs. Maybe she is also in that zone where she is ending a run just where she has warmed up into it. Mix up the actual training a bit with some faster stuff and some more mid-paced stuff and in the slow runs have the odd burst of raised pace for 60-90s (not flat out!) - the easy can feel easier when you have given the body a shake-up rather than just plodding along continuously.
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Nov 2018
1:27pm, 16 Nov 2018
6,054 posts
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larkim
Yep, that's where I was going. I know that that is a bit of a thread hijack, but I couldn't resist when you noted the 10min/mile part - it just chimed with something I'd been musing on for a few weeks.
LOL @ TS - evidence is definitely something which is thin on the ground, though collective shared experience does add something. And anyway, if we can't waffle about infinite complexities of running in a safe environment like FE, where can we do that?!?
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Nov 2018
1:30pm, 16 Nov 2018
6,055 posts
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larkim
I'd not spotted this, but the volume of runs for Mrs Better Half is artificially inflated by her doing a Lent "run every day" for 1 mile. I need to flush that out of the averages.
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Nov 2018
1:39pm, 16 Nov 2018
29,557 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Larks, if you think FE is "safe" to talk about running (training types, form, shoes etc.) then you've got off lightly. Who remembers the "More Efficient Running" thread? I bet The Saint does!! A couple of others who do either don't post any more or aren't even on Fetch!
Does Mrs Larks do any intervals or other intensity work, as well as her "general" running? And I mean shorter than 5km.  G
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Nov 2018
2:02pm, 16 Nov 2018
6,056 posts
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larkim
She does a bit, but not enough for my liking! And she presents that usual dichotomy - she doesn't want to be governed by performance goals and just enjoy running to clear the head and keep the body ticking over. But then she grumbles when she's struggling to dip under 28 minutes at parkrun!
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Nov 2018
2:58pm, 16 Nov 2018
1,543 posts
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J2R
larkim, I find, from my own experience and from those I've given coaching to, that short fast sprints - 200 or 400 metres at 15-20 seconds per mile faster than 5K pace - are often the most palatable way to get into interval training. They're not anything like as unpleasant as the longer intervals I do (such as 4 x 8 mins at 10K pace off 2 minutes, which is puzzlingly awful), yet they bring real speed benefits, especially when you're starting out. Mrs Larkim might benefit from that kind of thing.
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