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Jun 2018
12:48pm, 18 Jun 2018
2,621 posts
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K5 Gus
I have absolutely no faith in Garmin's OHR readings. Despite reading loads (on DCRainmaker, etc) that Garmin's latest OHR was now very accurate ( except maybe when doing fast change of pace eg intervals ), this has not been my findings since getting the Fenix 5.
For the first couple of weeks ( before I sold my 230 ) I wore both watches, with a chest strap paired to the 230 ( and the strap not yet paired to the F5 ) - there were often marked differences on all those runs. Sometimes on a easy steady run the strap would show about 130-140 as expected, and the OHR be away above 160 or 170, other times it was the reverse, eg on hill reps the strap would show 170+ as expected and the OHR down around 140-150.
I now wear the strap paired with the Fenix for all runs where i want to monitor HR. The OHR stuff is interesting for the non-running part of the day, but no more. Thankfully the OHR was not the reason for buying the Fenix, or I would have been very unhappy.
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Jun 2018
12:57pm, 18 Jun 2018
28,895 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Hmm, interesting Gus. Annoying if that is the case. I don't train by HR religiously, but the stats are useful and quite informative, if they are accurate. I hoped having an "always on" HR monitor would give me some good, objective info about fitness and progression.
But if it's out by 20bpm for 3/4 of a race or just reading randomly wrong, then that's less than no use, it's actually downright misleading.
When I'm running I wear it reasonably tight (much looser during normal day wear). I was sweating pretty profusely, and also, I need to find a way to turn off all the goal notifications during a race when you want to view the screen that you are viewing. It was doing loads of crazy stuff - fastest section and goal stairs and all sorts of useless stuff. Hmm.
OK, I'll just write it up as a false HR trail. Annoying.  G
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Jun 2018
1:05pm, 18 Jun 2018
5,065 posts
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larkim
Apparently reading FIT files on the watch is not supported by the Connect IQ framework, so that idea looks to be dead and buried. That's a shame. I doubt I'd be capable of linkng my watch to the Runalyze site, so I'll just have to keep an eye on that site then.
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Jun 2018
6:11pm, 18 Jun 2018
1,151 posts
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Flatlander
My Garmin gave me a ridiculously high HR (>200!) whilst cycling today although the HR was the usual value when I finger checked my pulse while riding. When I got home I checked the battery of the HR strap. It was low so I changed it. Let's see what the HR is on the next use.
I had my VO2Max determined when a breathing problem was being investigated. It was 50 (the average for my age and gender is 30) which, like most trained athletes, put me in the "superior" category so I don't think I'm one of those people who might benefit from a watch that calculated it for me, no matter how accurate it might be.
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Jun 2018
9:18pm, 18 Jun 2018
5,067 posts
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larkim
So uploaded three separate proper activities directly to Runalyze tonight, and all three had different VO2Max figures. So from that I am concluding that the watch is calculating VO2 Max itself (accurately or not, who knows!), but for me that solves an odd mystery about this watch and restores a feature I thought I'd lost!
So any users of the old Vivoactive, there you go...
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Jun 2018
2:03pm, 25 Jun 2018
12,917 posts
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Chrisull
larkim - so sorry wasn't quite sure if the watch did do the VO2 max calcs, which this wouldn't be available to a custom programmed gadget? There already is one that does this (but unsatisfactorily), but it might be doing it off heart rate/RHR max HR and pace on the fly....
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Jun 2018
2:07pm, 25 Jun 2018
12,918 posts
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Chrisull
Secondly - open question, we talk about the desired goal of HR improvement and how it is rarely linear, and it goes up plateaus, stays a few weeks then goes up again.
So this is fairly uncontroversial right? Ok, and HR can do the opposite too. plateau. down. plateau. If this is the case, what are the causes. Obvious ones, like less training, injury, illness.... But if you're not injured and you are maintaining training at similar level throughout out.... what else? Viruses? Fatigue/Over training ?? Body no longer responding to the same training stimulus??? Or what about peaking and your natural cycles?? It's obvious my HR has pedalled backwards I reached a peak, plateauxed and now it's getting worse over a month.
In which case what do you do to arrest/change that?
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Jun 2018
2:28pm, 25 Jun 2018
1,299 posts
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J2R
I wish I knew the answer to this myself, Chrisull, as I'm going through a bad period which I think is probably some form of overtraining syndrome (although brought on by racing while not fully well, rather than overtraining per se). Performances have gone down, I have disturbed sleep, and puzzling fluctuations in temperature (I will occasionally start to feel warm and rather sweaty for no obvious reason). My HRV is persistently rather low at the moment.
I have come to the conclusion, though, that performance ebbs and flows are probably part of the natural training cycle, unless you're very careful. I believe that the most effective training for getting fitter and faster only works for a while, and if you continue with it, your performance starts to tail off. So maybe you can keep up, say, 3 months hard training, and then you have to take it really easy for 3-4 weeks before starting up again. You can probably maintain a less demanding training schedule without the breaks, but that won't get you the same results. The trick, I think, is knowing when to ease off. You probably have to forget about some key races (or at least be prepared to run them at well under 100%), depending where they fall in the year.
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Jun 2018
2:43pm, 25 Jun 2018
833 posts
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Andrew65
There are (as you have alluded) many variables that affect your heart rate.
Body temperature, hydration and electrolyte levels are going to have a significant effect. Obviously, by the nature of HR training, you are going to be measuring HR over a series of runs, so there is always going to be some degree of variation from run to run. Over time, we see a trend and get some idea about where the middle of the distribution curve is though.
So, day to day variation of fluid electrolytes and temperature become less significant.
Likewise with virus/infection.
I would think that the cycles of stress and adaptation do not produce linear improvements. The amount of adaptation that takes place is not necessarily correlated to stress alone. Adaptation requires energy, proteins and sufficient rest. You have to maintain optimal levels of each to maximise the adaptation.
This is complicated further by the fact that stress cannot be objectively measured; the perception of exertion might not actually be as accurate as we like to think. Pain can increase heart rate but pain is subjective. Likewise, a run can sometimes seem easy/difficult, for no apparent reason. We listen to our bodies but sometimes they lie to us
Another thing to remember is that HR, on it's own, is a fairly blunt tool for measuring Cardiovascular status. When you are improving your CVS, what you are actually doing is improving your ability to maintain a cardiac output that is sufficient to transport O2 to your muscles and to remove CO2 to the lungs (and buffer acids etc).
This is achieved by having a stable Cardiac Output (which is a flow rate in l/min). Your C.O is a product of HR and Stroke volume (volume of blood ejected per heart beat/contraction).
Exercise raises HR and BP, this causes stress and adaptation of the Myocardium (heart muscle), as the myocardium becomes more vascular, and more efficient, it can eject more blood per beat (SV). Therefore, your HR compensates by slowing down to maintain the same C.O.
There are also hormonal variations that will lead to changes to your basal metabolic rate.
Also, blood ph and temperature affects your O2 transportation.
So, your HR is responding to a lot of things simultaneously, it can be impossible to really know why your HR is doing what it is doing.
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Jun 2018
3:46pm, 25 Jun 2018
12,920 posts
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Chrisull
J2R - I think I'm guilty too of training when not fully well. It's hard to know. Some colds can be severe and not affect fitness. Some viruses can be minor, but suddenly you know they've hurt your fitness, like my last one. I did see a study of US elite athletes and viruses could have a measurable effect even as much as 18 months later!!!
Andrew - thanks. Hmm sufficient rest is the other thing I forgot. There has been stress this year, but it seemed to have a delayed effect.
And your last comment "So, your HR is responding to a lot of things simultaneously, it can be impossible to really know why your HR is doing what it is doing."
which begs the question, is it worth measuring HR in isolation then lol?
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