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Jan 2023
8:30am, 25 Jan 2023
2,197 posts
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Muttley
I was amused to see a new verb doing the rounds recently: to Scholz, meaning to announce good intentions but then find excuses to not carry them out.
But it looks like the Yanks finally leaned on him enough. Ukraine gets the tanks. I hope it's not too late.
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Jan 2023
11:53am, 25 Jan 2023
3,763 posts
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GeneHunt59
I thought the German's were leaning on the 'Yanks' to agree to send tanks as well, (before committing), which they have now. Germany's prior history of sending tanks against Russia makes the situation uncomfortable for some apparently.
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Jan 2023
11:57am, 25 Jan 2023
26,081 posts
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Angus Clydesdale
It’s hardly the same, is it?
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Jan 2023
12:00pm, 25 Jan 2023
3,764 posts
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GeneHunt59
Hardly the same? Sorry, but I can't tell German's how to think. They are constantly reminded about WW2, and WW1 whatever they do. Can be a lose, lose situation.
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Jan 2023
12:22pm, 25 Jan 2023
2,198 posts
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Muttley
Germany has been getting a lot of bad press lately, which I think is a little unfair. It's one of the top contributors of military kit (think Gepards, howitzers, ammo, and others) and it's just performed a screeching 180-degree U-turn after decades of pacifism and Ostpolitik, aka cuddling up to Russia. And its history is unfortunate, to say the least, which the Russians like to remind it of at every opportunity.
Often forgotten also is that Germany is hosting about a million refugees from Ukraine.
Better late than never with the tanks. And it looks like the Biden administration is losing some of its inhibitions as well. They seem to have accepted that the only way to deal with Putin is to beat him up. Correct, imho. Give the Ukrainians the tools and they'll finish the job. Otherwise we'll have the same fight again, a few years down the line.
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Jan 2023
12:23pm, 25 Jan 2023
48,018 posts
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♪♫ Synge ♪♫
When I visited Germany in the 70s and 80s, a lot of (West) German family conversation was about their real fear that Russian tanks could come across the border at the drop of a hat and how they could be well into West Germany within hours. I suspect that for a lot of people those memories and fears of the Cold War remain.
I wonder too whether the public opinion now is affected by the fact that a large part of the population lived in the DDR for many years and may not have quite the same western view of all this that we think they might have.
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Jan 2023
12:24pm, 25 Jan 2023
9,404 posts
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Northern Exile
Can I just chuck in that Germany is also one of the biggest providers of humanitarian aid to Ukraine?
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Jan 2023
1:16pm, 25 Jan 2023
26,084 posts
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Angus Clydesdale
Hardly the same? Sorry, but I can't tell German's how to think. They are constantly reminded about WW2, and WW1 whatever they do. Can be a lose, lose situation.
Calm down. I wasn’t having a go at you.
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Jan 2023
1:26pm, 25 Jan 2023
2,200 posts
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Muttley
Coincidence or not, but today is Volodymyr Zelensky's birthday. He's 45.
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Jan 2023
1:50pm, 25 Jan 2023
8,298 posts
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Fields
When I visited Germany in the 70s and 80s, a lot of (West) German family conversation was about their real fear that Russian tanks could come across the border at the drop of a hat and how they could be well into West
Germany within hours. I suspect that for a lot of people those memories and fears of the Cold War remain. I wonder too whether the public opinion now is affected by the fact that a large part of the population lived in the DDR for many years and may not have quite the same western view of all this that we think they might have.
The Fulda gap.
This is a major change in German post-war doctrine, sending equipment to war zones. Hope it’s worth the fall out
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Helping Refugees
Apr 2022