The vaporfly thread
1 lurker |
86 watchers
Mar 2021
5:21pm, 15 Mar 2021
33,590 posts
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SPR
Can't knock anyone for taking placing seriously. The beauty of sport is that it matters even though it doesn't really matter. If you were caught with EPO somehow though it wouldn't be just ignored, you'd be banned. It isn't 'ignored' because it doesn't matter, it's ignored because it's too costly but in this case it's not too hard. I'm sympathetic to the participation argument though. I wonder whether super spikes make it a non issue on track eventually in that the 40mm shoes might end up faster than standard spikes but the superspike being optimally tuned will be faster than the supershoe. |
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Mar 2021
5:24pm, 15 Mar 2021
33,591 posts
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SPR
NB my non-issue comment means it would still be officially banned hence no optimal tuned version for track, elites wouldn't wear them and only those that wanted to just 'participate' as opposed to gain an advantage would likely wear them.
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Mar 2021
6:58pm, 15 Mar 2021
3,476 posts
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J2R
Has anyone on here had initial difficulty to adjusting to their Vaporfly or equivalent shoes? I did my first proper run in my Saucony Endorphin Pros today, 12 km alternating fast and slow kilometres. I'd only run a couple of km in them before. I like them and they feel comfy and light, but I'm not sure I'm getting the most out of them performance-wise yet. I just wonder whether it's something to do with my gait? These have 'SPEEDROLL' technology, which 'propels you forward with the feeling of continuous momentum', but I'm not sure I'm really feeling that much yet. I wonder whether they work better for heel strikers? I am really a mid-foot striker.
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Mar 2021
10:17am, 17 Mar 2021
13,777 posts
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larkim
Just checked and all my PBs on the track were in 2018 run in spikes, so I'm not morally compromised!!
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Mar 2021
11:46am, 17 Mar 2021
73,630 posts
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Gobi
J2R - i went to the 4% from Nike Free and have noticed that if I plan to race hard in them I need to do more running in them. Larks - My Pbs on the track are so old I may have been in plimsoles |
Mar 2021
1:32pm, 17 Mar 2021
114 posts
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fuzzyduck79
Interesting account from Paul Pollock, suggests that these big leaps can happen at the sharp end. Not sure what he was using before. Valencia 2019 produced a lot of truly stunning times, so much so I had to check if the distance looked correct (looked fine to me) Am guessing conditions were great and the strong field maybe helped. irishexaminer.com "Pollock was pessimistic. Another stress fracture on the build-up meant he had averaged just 41 miles a week during his four-month preparation which, for an elite marathoner, is like bringing a spoon to a gun fight. He reckoned, at very best, he was in 2:15 shape, but he and his coach agreed there was little value in emptying the tank after such a preparation. The plan was to run to halfway with the group going at 2:11:30 pace and then drop out, recover and begin a proper build-up for the London Marathon five months later. Two days before the race, Pollock had gone for a run in a pair of the Nike Vaporfly Next%, his first time trying the line of super-shoes that revolutionised the sport in recent years, combining as they do a carbon-fibre plate embedded in a midsole made of hyper-responsive, ultra-light Pebax foam. They’d been everywhere on start lines for the previous year, from Parkruns to Marathon Majors, but Pollock was one of the last converts, conscious that the way the thick-soled shoes altered foot mechanics could cause even more injuries. He ran two kilometres at race pace in the shoes, felt no issues, and figured he’d give them a go in the race. What unfolded on that Sunday morning, he still doesn’t fully understand. Pollock got to halfway on target pace but felt so easy that he didn’t step off the road. When he hit 20, 21 miles and expected a large cement wall to be erected in front of him, the way it usually is, he only saw open road. In fact, he started to speed up. “That very rarely happens in a marathon,” he says. He ripped through the final miles and crossed the line in disbelief at his time: 2:10:25, a Northern Irish record, automatic Olympic standard, which at the time made him the second fastest Irishman in history. He thought back on his preparation. Yes, he’d been hitting the bike hard during his injury, but an average of 40-odd miles a week and he’d run that fast? A question formed in his mind. “If I get into 2:10 shape without the shoes and add in a good day and the shoes,” he says. “What might I do?”" |
Mar 2021
2:20pm, 17 Mar 2021
5,067 posts
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Windsor Wool
incredible to think that over the last 8 years he has lost an average of 5 months / year out to injury. That takes some mental fortitude to survive that. I'm not trying to down play the role of the shoes, I was a massive advocate of their performance benefits when I 1st wore them. But, I've often wondered that once you get to a certain level of capability / base built over many years and tens of thousands of miles then maybe you can get away with a different preparation. Perhaps his cake was baked so big that this 40 mpw / big bike approach was the perfect icing? Impressive performance all the same - that is a fast course btw for those looking for one! |
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Mar 2021
2:36pm, 17 Mar 2021
73,639 posts
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Gobi
WW -as someone with a well baked cake, ultras and 000s of miles in the bank I retired from distance running in 2012 on medical advice. From 2014 I was able to run 16.xx 5kms but also a 1.20 half without any real issue which allowed me to do a number of halfs as the 90 in pacer with no drama All this on 1500 miles a year. As the years ticked by and I avoided injury, I did the occasional 20 miler etc..... I got a little keen last year and wondered if there was any way my largely cyclist frame could do very limited miles and still target a sub 7hr 30 Comrades Wearing a pair of 4% I tested this theory last year and my legs packed in at 17 miles anyway. The 17 had been done at 6.4x and my heart rate was not even at my previous marathon HR but there is obviously something else I was missing. I concluded a few things: 1. The engine is the engine so I was in incredible shape. 2. My body responds to mileage and the lack of good long runs came back to bite me. 3. The shoes were excellent but they do not stop fatigue or mask injury. 4. The doctors had a point as all the reasons I was told to stop came back to haunt me and I was in pain for days :¬) I actually train a few times a week in the 4% as I realised I needed time in them when I was preparing for the European Duathlon Champs last year. I noted that the rebound etc was messing with my hamstrings(added to my medical issues there is probably a clue for me in here somewhere) and calfs but it is definately negated by familiarity. |
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Mar 2021
2:43pm, 17 Mar 2021
115 posts
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fuzzyduck79
I do think that's true, if you've done 1000s of hours already then you can maintain world class level off less training, or quite close to it. Haile was still breaking age group records after 40, but said he was mostly busy with running his businesses and just did a little training when he had time. Give him another 10 years and I suspect muscle atrophy will have more of an impact. Charlie Spedding's autobiography shows he was injured for long spells during his best years, his comebacks (even after surgery) were remarkable. |
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Mar 2021
2:51pm, 17 Mar 2021
33,603 posts
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SPR
It's been quite easy for me to ignore the VP and high stack super shoes TBH given I think they'd need a lot of adaption for me. It also helps I don't do much road and for the road I do, it can be argued that lightweight will trump the tech and my light weight shoe does use pebax so I'm getting the best cushioning even if there isn't a lot of it (yes, it definitely feels better than my previous lighter weight racer). With the spikes, the dragonfly doesn't look much different from the New Balance LD5000 I currently use, save for a bit more cushioning so it will be harder to resist if they start pulling up trees. I do like the way NB spikes fit though. I started off on track in Nike Rival Ds and the NB spikes I've had for track and XC just fit my feet better. I notice in one review that the dragonfly is supposed to have a wider forefoot compared to other Nike spikes though. |
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