So who won the tour from 1999 to 2005

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While Raptor Knitted Socks by Night Dec 2017 4:01pm, 13 Dec 2017 37,288 posts	0 While Raptor Knitted Socks by Night The jiffy bag thing sets a precedent for teams and riders to be able to hide behind bad record-keeping and conflicting stories.
Bazoaxe Dec 2017 4:04pm, 13 Dec 2017 12,236 posts	0 Bazoaxe Different sport, and I haven't read into it fully, but the Tyson Fury and his cousin episode seems to have been dropped by UKADA or British Boxing for reasons that are not clear and which in Boxing would seem to be a bit reckless
larkim Dec 2017 4:21pm, 13 Dec 2017 3,543 posts	0 larkim Not sure that's fair Raptor - I'd say in many ways it was a wake up call to ensure that documentation is well kept. Though I suspect your / my perspectives on that may differ depending on whether you think doping is rife or not. I tend to think that doping is NOT rife at the moment, so its a wake up call to make sure that when you are clean you can do your best to prove it. If you start though from a perspective of thinking that teams are trying to find ways to dope without being discovered, then the option to poorly document everything might be a route to achieve that.
While Raptor Knitted Socks by Night Dec 2017 4:34pm, 13 Dec 2017 37,289 posts	0 While Raptor Knitted Socks by Night Indeed, larkim. I think the message was sent that it's OK, and even better, to ensure there is a culture of sketchy or missing documentation. I'd like to think drug use in cycling IS above board and transparent, so it's very disappointing to discover that it's not and that there seems to be no impetus to enforce transparency. If Dr Freeman had been a bog standard GP, there's no way the GMC would have tolerating him failing to keep proper records and not storing confidential medical records securely. But then, this is a sport in which the likes of Shane Sutton can always get a job.
Jambomo Dec 2017 4:42pm, 13 Dec 2017 6,558 posts	0 Jambomo I'm no cycling expert but I can say from my work in information management that despite what often appears to me to be incredibly obvious reasons for keeping good records and having strong management, people like Brailsford are exactly the kind of people who think it is a trivial detail and don't bother looking at information management until it bites them on the arse. I see it everyday from academics who definitely do know better but are too lazy to bother. It would definitely not surprise me that info may be on laptops which get lost and that nobody know what is where.
Chrisull Dec 2017 5:47pm, 13 Dec 2017 12,031 posts	0 Chrisull larks - I'm with V'rap here. Doping has always been semi-rife or totally rife unfortunately.
Chrisull Dec 2017 8:22pm, 13 Dec 2017 12,032 posts	0 Chrisull larks - re: Petacchi, sorry, the 2010 banned substance bit doesn't wash. Ulissi got a 9 month ban for having 1920mg of salbutamol in 2014. I'm certain there are more examples too. And Piepoli (known drugs cheat) avoided a ban for same offence in 2007 (source BBC) I hate being a pessimist, but people on these threads were calling Armstrong innocent practically up to the day he confessed. I think Froome is going down for this one.
SPR Dec 2017 8:34pm, 13 Dec 2017 25,398 posts	0 SPR Even if he goes down, it's hardly an Armstrong type offense.
Chrisull Dec 2017 10:44pm, 13 Dec 2017 12,034 posts	0 Chrisull Nope, I wasn't inferring it was either. But Sky went in aiming to be cleaner than clean, so must be judged accordingly too.
Derby Tup Dec 2017 11:00pm, 13 Dec 2017 24,021 posts	0 Derby Tup ^ good point Chrisull I’d lost track of the number of Tours de France Chris F has won. Winning four while cheating is Armstrongesque in my view