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May 2016
11:55am, 19 May 2016
793 posts
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larkim
TBH just stipulating (and enforcing!) that runners line up with some semblance of pace order would probably solve the vast majority of tripping / stumbling incidents on single lap courses.
It comes naturally to some people, and less so to others. I'm sure those speedier runners amongst us can all recall a time when in the first 400yds we've had to dodge someone who ignored race organisers well meaning predicted time pens etc by a substantial amount because they thought it would be fun to start near the front. (And equally I'm sure there are plenty of runners who are not so fast who have had occasions where speedier runners on lap courses have been less than courteous or considerate when coming past - problems aren't all down to slower or faster runners, everyone could contribute).
As ever, it just comes down to consideration for others and a bit of fore-thought about the consequences of your actions. The vast, vast majority of people get this right, but as with most things it is the actions of a small minority that cause problems.
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May 2016
11:57am, 19 May 2016
58,340 posts
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Gobi
Happens at parkrun most weeks and at any event that has a large entry or a narrow start
There is ALWAYS ONE
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May 2016
11:58am, 19 May 2016
14,129 posts
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The Teaboy
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The problem of slower runners starting in the wrong pen could be easily solved with the use of snipers. Shoot a few miscreants and the others will soon think twice.
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May 2016
12:03pm, 19 May 2016
133 posts
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CharlieP
It's not overtaking a single runner that bothers me. It's more the situation where a group all moves in unison like those large shoals of little fish, due to hazard perception or a shouted warning... except for that one idiot who has self-induced tunnel vision. Hard to explain on a forum since we haven't yet developed mind's eye->YouTube technology.
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May 2016
12:10pm, 19 May 2016
23,405 posts
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McGoohan
Gobi - are you referring to where people run without headphones but have their music coming through the phone speakers? I think Teaboy's sniper solution is good there as well.
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May 2016
12:39pm, 19 May 2016
5,834 posts
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The_Saint
Has anyone posted the full rules ? Just in case not I will, possibly people are missing the last point - to which I ask, if as an RD you go to the trouble of recruiting and positioning marshals in accordance with the risk assessment, why on earth are they there if runners do not have to conform with what the last point says?
Appendix 4 Page 231
OTHER ISSUES
Use of Audio Headsets and Mobile Telephones by Runners
IAAF Competition Rules do not permit the use of any form of audio headset or mobile telephone within the competition area (which includes road and cross country races). From April 2016 UKA Rules for competition will not allow the use of headsets in any road race that is held on single carriageway roads that are open to traffic. (Rule 240 S5).
The advice to race promoters is that their race risk assessment should take account of the possibility of runners wearing headsets or using telephones and apply local conditions appropriate to the findings of the risk assessment. If it is deemed unsafe then promoters may restrict use and disqualify any runner found to be contravening the instruction. UKA will support any race promoter taking such action.
Races in which audio headsets and mobile telephones should not be used include:
. Championships
. Cross Country
. On roads that are open to traffic
. On lap courses – including when closed to traffic
. Where runners must be alert to marshals’ instructions
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May 2016
12:56pm, 19 May 2016
794 posts
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larkim
That's an interesting excerpt, but it isn't the rules - its guidance supplementary to the rules isn't it? Though I'll accept that I don't quite appreciate what the status of those guidelines actually is.
Interesting that they say lap courses "should not" have headphones either.
I'd say that marshals are equally there to deal with non-runners issues (e.g. car that wants to cross the course, directing first aid in the event of an incident, etc) so it isn't necessarily the case that all marshals' are placed in order to give instructions to runners, but you do make a fair point. I suppose it relies on the "must" and "alert". In a single lap course run entirely within a non-motorised park, is it essential that all runners "must be alert" to marshals' instructions in the same way that they "must be alert" if the course they are on crosses a level crossing (I've run one such course).
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May 2016
1:10pm, 19 May 2016
5,836 posts
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The_Saint
It is in there and it says this
"If it is deemed unsafe then promoters may restrict use and disqualify any runner found to be contravening the instruction. UKA will support any race promoter taking such action."
Which to me makes any distinction between "rules" and "guidance" hair-splitting, if I position a marshal somewhere it is because they are needed, if they are needed then runners need to hear what they may say.
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May 2016
1:37pm, 19 May 2016
795 posts
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larkim
Sorry, not trying to be hair splitting, but UKA are not known for being legally tight on all of their documentation.
I'm just saying that it isn't clear that the appendices to the rules (which are much more "rule-like") have any technical force. It says "audio headsets...should not be used.... on lap courses" in this appendix. But in rule 240 they clearly make only one category of race the category under which headphones are banned, so it is mildly contradictory to then add other categories, particularly with the final two bullets. Appendix 4 is never cross referenced from within the main rules, so it is unclear what status the points made in appendix 4 actually have.
For example, if I was wearing headphones in a race on open roads, irrespective of what the race organisers publicity said, it is clear that I would be liable to sanction by UKA for a breach of their rules.
But if I was wearing headphones in a closed road race on a lap course, with no comment made by the race organisers, have I broken any rules? I have acted in contradiction of appendix 4, and arguably the race organiser has gone against some guidance in the appendix, but is it a rule breach? (Probably not, if only because the clause is phrased as "should not" rather than "must not").
It is clear that race directors have the permission to DQ any runner in any event (Rule 240(8)) if runners fail to follow instruction, so the Rules enshrine their rights properly.
Look, it doesn't really matter to me one way or another. I think the received wisdom is that the new rules only specifically ban headphones in open road races. I think it is wise to draw attention to the guidance that suggests there are other categories that UKA think ought to have headphone bans too, and personally I hope all race organisers read and consider that advice, and then make their rules for their races clear having taken onboard that feedback. And I do agree, the marshals' instructions point is a peculiar one, whether or not it is a rule.
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May 2016
1:53pm, 19 May 2016
46 posts
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willdowney
Being a headphone wearer I have to admit I have felt embarrased sometimes when another runner has rasied thier voice to me to alert they are overtaking me...I tend to run with it on the lowest volume possible now.
I don't buy the whole health and safety aspect though....For instructions to be heard it is down to the marshall and the runner but also the race director to highlight any particular hazards on the course. lets face it, you follow everyone else on the course - hearing a "turn left command" when you see a yellow arrow pointing left and 30 people in front of you turning left is a big clue to what is being said.
Headphones are not the biggest Health and safety aspect of a race - getting people at the correct starting position is more important and more likley to cause injuries and or tempers when you have to overtake slower runners at start - I remember one race where I started with a guy on a 10k race and the was 12 minutes difference between our finish times - The race was chip timmed as well so he had no excuse for starting so close to the start.
I done a race the weekend with a big focus on No headphones - The outcome - it was like running in a nightclub with people playing music on thier phone without headphones
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Bluetooth bone conduction heaphones/buds
Oct 2024