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Aug 2017
2:55pm, 15 Aug 2017
626 posts
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AndrewS
Interesting stuff on this thread.
The only thing that I want to throw in here is that it should be about time, not distance.
Your body has no concept of distance, only time. If you are training your body to run a long distance (like a marathon) you have to train your body to function over a prolonged period of time (obviously), but the distance covered during that time is going to be entirely dependent on how fast you are running.
So, the 'big long run' that you do towards the end of your training should be done according to your projected race time, and not distance.
20 miles seems to have been a sort of average/ball-park figure that marathoners have used for years and I think that it has just stuck, even though there is no science behind that number. I have done it myself.
The point made about loss of form once you pass a certain distance is spot on too. Which is why top marathon runners do an extreme amount of core work.
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Aug 2017
2:59pm, 15 Aug 2017
11,823 posts
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early bird
☺️G what would you recommend me do? 3 long runs left and sunday was 12 miles.
14, 16 then back to 12 maybe? I will not be doing my pt session the week of the event and will probably only do 2 small runs and possibly 1 or 2 boot camp sessions. One of which is a core session and the other an upper.
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Aug 2017
3:05pm, 15 Aug 2017
11,005 posts
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paul a
Uh oh......LSR vs LR debate approaching......I'm not saying anything.
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Aug 2017
3:07pm, 15 Aug 2017
27,154 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Ooh, bit worried about recommending anything. Not a qualified coach etc.!
Core and upper fine. I do Pilates right into final week. No leg weights and just short runs last week sounds good. 2 weeks out I wouldn't do more than 12. As a comparison, the 70 mile per week with 22 mile long runs and long, fast runs only cuts down to 12 miles 2 weeks out. So you're doing same as them, if you do 12 miles. Just sayin'! 
Less is more in that 2 weeks.
14, 17, then only 8 or 10 max at 2 weeks out? Do the 17 sloooow, plenty walk breaks, lots of time on feet (with hills if you want, and as much away from tarmac as poss for me, cos reduces injury risk). You'll be puggled at 17, but recover fully in 2 weeks for your race? Sound ok?
Very best of luck. G
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Aug 2017
3:12pm, 15 Aug 2017
27,155 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Paul a - I think we're addressing folks here who are looking to finish (and feel good towards end) rather than those looking to optimize their pace and time on race day.
As we've discussed before, I completely agree with you about doing pace in long runs for improving your race performance. But for people looking to get up to distance in their training, I think focus on pace would be a mistake. Better get up to distance / time and not worry about the pace, I think.
It's different for habitual speedies like yourself! G
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Aug 2017
3:20pm, 15 Aug 2017
11,824 posts
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early bird
Thanks ☺️G
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Aug 2017
3:32pm, 15 Aug 2017
13,274 posts
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Fenland (Fenners) Runner
To be honest, I don't think Paul A and I are in that much discord? Nobody recommends running 20 miles with every mile at Marathon Pace. Perhaps (as having fallen in the trap) I think it is better to err on the side of slower long runs than too fast and then being unable to train for days. I definitely think that say running a 20-miler with 15 miles at MP+90 then the last 5 miles at MP is a good thing.
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Aug 2017
3:40pm, 15 Aug 2017
11,614 posts
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Chrisull
Fenners he is a level 4 coach, he coaches some elites, he is bloody amazing, anyone who has attended his sessions thinks so, they remember him for years. He was quite categoric - that kind of time on feet FOR AN AVERAGE 5 HOUR marathoner, was doing more harm than good, that is the current thinking. I'm not talking, you or me, or ultra runners. He is massively experienced, and also really open to new ideas.
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Aug 2017
3:42pm, 15 Aug 2017
11,615 posts
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Chrisull
So his audience was newly qualified coaches mainly, or those experienced but wanting to refresh knowledge on marathon/long distance training and injuries. I am repeating what we were told. There were some raised eyebrows.
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Aug 2017
3:44pm, 15 Aug 2017
11,676 posts
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Ultracat
Interesting debate.
Over the years I have been given some good advice from coaches regarding long runs and learning from my own experience.
3 hours 30 mins longest run, practise fuelling, eat a light snack within 30 minutes of finishing, have a long soak in the bath with Epsom salts, eat more food, rest or do something like knitting. Have a good tea that evening and enjoy a glass of wine and a gentle walk to pub.
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