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Jun 2019
9:13pm, 17 Jun 2019
2,030 posts
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FenlandRunner
Yeah, but simbil, he's running at 20 mph. What would his cadence be for 100 miles?
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Jun 2019
9:22pm, 17 Jun 2019
28,060 posts
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SPR
Bolt's cadence was lower than his peers.
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Jun 2019
11:31pm, 17 Jun 2019
8,067 posts
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simbil
In terms of the physics, I should think a combination of leg length and weight will increase the energy cost of reposition limbs so that the sweet spot cadence is a little lower than a runner with shorter / lighter legs, all else being equal.
So someone with long heavy legs will probably have a naturally lower cadence and won’t benefit as much from the springy efficiency that kicks in at higher cadences, because to hit that cadence would cost the disproportionately more.
Conditioning may well play a role too, plyometrics may help increase the faster cadence efficiency to the point where even heavy long legs get some benefit.
All this only matters at faster paces too where limb repostioning costs are as expensive as the cost of getting airborne each step.
For the majority of recreational runners, most benefit probably comes from weight loss, strength gain and general fitness.
The theory seems to hold for some old triathletes I know who can get close to pb run times off lots of training but very little actual running.
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Jun 2019
6:57am, 18 Jun 2019
4,650 posts
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jda
I have extremely long and fairly heavy legs. However I also have such a lack of spring and bounce that the only way I can keep going efficiently is by having modest time and distance airborne between foot strikes 
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Jun 2019
7:03am, 18 Jun 2019
2,033 posts
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FenlandRunner
simbil, going off at a tangent, would you agree/disagree that more mature runners that have ten's of thousand's of miles in their legs can 'get away' with less mileage anyway.
I'm sure I read somewhere that endurance in lost slowly....?
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Jun 2019
7:15am, 18 Jun 2019
10,568 posts
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Garfield
Not quite that slowly, I suspect! I've got a slight imbalance in my hips...I need to strengthen the left one a bit.
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Jun 2019
8:08am, 18 Jun 2019
8,068 posts
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simbil
FR, a good consistent base of years of running will have some long lasting benefits from remodelled bones and ligaments plus the knowledge and belief of running distances at pace.
Pure endurance though I believe drops off quickly and can be rebuilt quickly too. Speed drops off slowly and takes longer to build.
Whilst you can get away with less running mileage, I’d be surprised if you can get away with less overall volume. The people I know who manage this tend to do quality running sessions but get the vast majority of volume and plenty of intensity cycling.
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Jun 2019
9:45am, 18 Jun 2019
31,797 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Less impactful endurance activity substitution seems sensible for older runners - bike, swim, row, walk (fast walk/marching!)
A coach at our club coaches some 60 and 70 plus marathon and triathlon folks and he advocates lots of walking within the running esp for the marathoners. They have PBd (sub 4 hours) with planned walk (fast, vigorous walk/march) of 1 min in every 20 (I think). And they do some portion of their long runs as fast walk.
I think everyone benefits from pushing their cadence up to and even beyond 180. It just means each landing is lower impact and tends to be under and behind your body, instead of in front. Pitter patter I call it. G
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Jun 2019
10:24am, 18 Jun 2019
440 posts
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SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss)
HappyG(rrr) -Just to be clear -you can't land behind your body and to be REALLY pedantic, you can't land literally directly under it either, because the body needs a moment to compress before it reaches mid-stance...otherwise you'd fall onto the ground within a couple of strides.
simbil -"For the majority of recreational runners, most benefit probably comes from weight loss, strength gain and general fitness". Couldn't agree more, yet they tend to look for shoe gimmicks instead.
Of course, cadence increases with speed -it has to because your body can't go running off at speed and leave your legs behind
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Jun 2019
10:26am, 18 Jun 2019
4,653 posts
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jda
My cadence doesn't change much with speed. Mind you, neither does my speed
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