More efficient running style

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SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss) Mar 2018 9:39am, 21 Mar 2018 339 posts	0 SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss) I think eyes are beginning to roll of this discussion, so I'll finish my contribution with this Simbil -your example of ending up on your bed after a few beers made me smile and also made me think of this graphic I did a year ago drive.google.com With regard to the rotation thing. Perhaps pivot would be more preferable? Anyway, they are just words, what's important is that rotation/pivot/fall doesn't continue as we go airborne because the fulcrum in which the body rotates around has gone once the foot breaks contact with the ground. Plus, during this rotation the upper body has a counter rotation (within the frame of the body, no the ground). This little illustration explains what I mean drive.google.com Then, look at this drive.google.com And finally, my last comments on the 'push-off' -Terminal stance ends when we reach 1BW (body weight), after which you're leaving the ground to go airborne. This is the very point that this last image of Mo is at and also where this push-off is supposed to occur. You can see he is not bearing any weight through his foot -there is nothing to push. The GRF data shows it too -both GRF and hGRF drop off significantly at this point. If there were a push the data would show a peak, not a drop off. Try this for yourself: Try stepping up onto a step WITHOUT first shifting your body weight over your support foot. You'll discover that in order to push your own body weight, it has to be over your support foot. Anyway guys, it's been really interesting, we haven't fallen out and I really do consider everyone's thoughts
SPR Mar 2018 10:27am, 21 Mar 2018 25,709 posts	0 SPR I certainly don't think of an active push off occuring at that point, it would be totally redundant, as you said the body is already going airborne. Most sprint stuff I've read would say that recovery has begun at least the point where the thigh is in line with the torso. The distance stuff I've read concerned with technique would say the push occurs while the foot is flat in the ground.
Fenners Mar 2018 10:35am, 21 Mar 2018 14,474 posts	0 Fenners I think you're concentrating on something that is really not important at all. Yesterday, watching somebody run on a treadmill, the biggest improvement to their running would have been to activate their left glute. This had nothing to do with pushing/pulling/etc/etc.
SPR Mar 2018 10:39am, 21 Mar 2018 25,712 posts	0 SPR ...So extending their hip, which is a push...
GlennR Mar 2018 10:40am, 21 Mar 2018 34,453 posts	0 GlennR That's what I was going to say SPR.
SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss) Mar 2018 10:51am, 21 Mar 2018 340 posts	0 SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss) SPR. Which comes from a reactive push UP at MID-STANCE combined with the rotation/pivot. In other words the hip is rising AS body weight falls forward of support. This is not the same as pushing body weight forward. Damn you lot -you lured me back in! LOL I'm going to the gym now to do the plank
Fenners Mar 2018 11:14am, 21 Mar 2018 14,476 posts	0 Fenners Nope, wrong, SPR. Not extending the hip, it was manifested in hip rotation.
larkim Mar 2018 11:46am, 21 Mar 2018 4,200 posts	0 larkim If hips are an inverted pendulum, in my world pendulums don't rotate, they swing. Rotation is a horrible word to be using to describe what's otherwise an oscillation surely? I must admit I get completely lost in all of the terminology about running form. I don't know how to visualise my pelvis collapsing, keeping hips forward, etc etc. The language doesn't seem particularly precise (to a layman) and if I watch someone run I can't describe things like that. But perhaps I also don't care!!
Canute Mar 2018 2:28pm, 21 Mar 2018 1,841 posts	0 Canute In fact the muscle contraction that drives the push does include the action of the gluteals during the period from mid-airborne phase to footfall. Part of the kinetic energy created by this contraction will be captured as elastic energy and is re-used in late stance. But gluteals also continue to act during stance Many of the muscles of the leg, from the glutes to the calves contribute substantially to the push. Even the muscles of the feet add a little bit. Factors such as elastic recoil influence the time when the contraction is strongest. Most of the work has been done by the time the vGRF is less than body weight in late stance, but that does not deny the fact that the work had to be done. (This helps explain why the extensor paradox is not really a paradox) The practical issues for the runner is that most of the muscles of the leg (and their tendons etc) need to be conditioned to cope with the demands of running. Power and resilience of the posterior chain of muscles is especially important., but it is not the whole story.
SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss) Mar 2018 2:56pm, 21 Mar 2018 341 posts	0 SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss) Canute Do you think calf/Achilles conditioning is best with eccentric contractions such as heel drops, rather than heel raises?