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Nov 2020
11:01am, 14 Nov 2020
54,852 posts
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Diogenes
That’s interesting, LD, I’ll look out for that.
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Nov 2020
1:09pm, 14 Nov 2020
751 posts
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Peregrinator
HHhH
So HHhH, a novel about writing a novel. I guess the first test is, does it disappear up it's self-referential bottom? I don't think it does: it is a very readable and interesting account of the patchwork of extrapolations, interpolations, choices and fabrications that the author of a novel covering an historical event has to make. What do they do with an individual's internal motivation, meetings that clearly took place, but were not recorded, the messy way that real-life events tumble out. Does it matter exactly what colour a car was?
But the problem I do have with the novel is the jaunty tone of the writing and the distancing effect of referencing from the present. I get that authors can and should treat their subject as they see fit. That "The Good Soldier Švejk" (Binet name-Czechs Hašek) can sit alongside the grimmest of accounts of soldiers in the trenches on the western front. Fair enough that Binet didn't want to this novel to be another thriller account of the heroism involved and is suspicious of the ones that have been written. But the approach of HHhH, with throwaway lines, and knowing references, means the assassination and aftermath come across as rather Keystone cops. Binet does intend his book to be a memorial to the sacrifices made for operation Anthropoid, but the impacts of the decisions people were making is missing; one wonders how Robert Harris would have handled this story. And Binet’s undermining of the link between fact and fiction in literature means he can't authoritatively cover the moral issues of planning the assassination, knowing that the Nazis would execute civilians in reprisal, and the cost to all connected with the attack. Did the killing of Heydrich prevent his transfer to France, and an even bloodier screwing down of another nation? Surely a memorial should say if the sacrifice was worth it. But maybe Binet's point is that we shouldn't learn history from novels.
As for not having page numbers: no idea.
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Nov 2020
1:24pm, 14 Nov 2020
31,630 posts
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LazyDaisy
Good point re the tone, Peregrinator.
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Nov 2020
1:49pm, 14 Nov 2020
54,865 posts
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Diogenes
Yes, the tone was perhaps my only real issue with the book. The murder of 33,000 people was handled in the same way as the discussion of the colour of a car.
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Nov 2020
6:17pm, 14 Nov 2020
116 posts
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Raggedy runner
I’ve just finished it having been gripped pretty much throughout. I don’t think he’s writing a novel but an account of an historical event for which he’s done masses of research. His dilemma is what to include/exclude without damaging the narrative flow and if he imagines conversations or thoughts, Mantel has built an industry around this. However, an academic historian would not include personal thoughts on characters’ appearance or actions, but let the actions speak for themselves. Binet doesn’t need to tell us, say, that Himmler is despicable but does, and I would take issue with that. I don’t need the writer to direct me on how to feel about characters. I also take issue with his attitude to women - I’m sorry, Slav women are the most beautiful in the world? Raspberry lips? The translation wasn’t the best - a few Americanisms slipped in but I think the translator’s British. Minor niggles apart, I enjoyed it.
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Nov 2020
6:31pm, 14 Nov 2020
54,874 posts
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Diogenes
RR - I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you about Binet’s attitude to women, but I don’t think your examples support your argument.
My experience (albeit limited) is that a very high proportion of Czech girls are indeed exceptionally attractive. Raspberry lips is a reasonable descriptive term, albeit somewhat clichéd.
I don’t think Binet demeans his female characters by describing their beauty, and many play pivotal roles demonstrating bravery and resourcefulness. The one jarring point for me was the suggestion that the English mother who gave the Czech men a home also gave them her daughters.
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Nov 2020
6:33pm, 14 Nov 2020
47,320 posts
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McGoohan
Hello all, I was going to hold off my own thoughts on it as choosinator till a bit further along, but what the heck, I'll throw a few in now.
One of the reasons I chose this was because I felt there are so many ways to react to it. It's not like one of those favourite books where you can't understand why anyone would dislike it (cf The Great Gatsby). I reckon all reactions pretty much are valid to HHhH including the negative ones. I love it, but I can perfectly understand why some don't or even violently take against it.
I have one minor point of disagreement with LD and Westmoors, in that I don't think Binet was at any point undecided what sort of book he was writing. I think every part of it is completely deliberate, including inserting his own feelings into the narrative.
For those that have read it (waves to Dio) I read this immediately after reading Out of Sheer Rage by Geoff Dyer which describes Dyer's failed attempts to write a biography of DH Lawrence but is really a study of prevarication. In some ways they are flip sides of the same thing: an author's involvement in their subject.
I had a bit of a rant against The Salt Path on the 'unofficial thread' and that was in part fuelled by reading HHhH. It's awakened a suspicion in me of biography and memoir in general and I think it has lifted the curtain on the genre somewhat.
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Nov 2020
6:38pm, 14 Nov 2020
54,875 posts
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Diogenes
I am predisposed to like books about writers writing about books or the writing process. I’m also certain that Binet knew exactly what he was doing and why.
I think you either like that type of thing or you don’t. Out Of Sheer Rage is a great book, and very funny.
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Nov 2020
4:34pm, 15 Nov 2020
42,520 posts
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LindsD
I really really liked this. I gave it a 9. I was, of course, predisposed to like it as I'm terribly suggestible and I knew that McG really liked it. I can see why. I can also see why it inspires repeated reading, and may well read it again soon. It wasn't at all what I expected, and at first I wondered whether the style of author talking about book would annoy me, but it didn't, and I found myself carried along by both the story and the process of writing the story. I liked being invited to think about the authorial presence in every story, and what we can be said to truly "know" about events in the past. I found the ending very moving indeed, and felt that Binet really brings home the absolute horrors of that time, which is quite difficult, as they are so enormous they have a tendency to glide across the surface of my brain and only register intellectually but not emotionally. Thanks for suggesting it. I also thought the translation must be pretty good (my French isn't great, so I can't really have an opinion) as it didn't read like a translation at all.
I have just started Fatherland, which might be a mistake, or genius. Not sure...
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Nov 2020
4:56pm, 15 Nov 2020
42,521 posts
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LindsD
So, Dio's first two posts are really what I wanted to say 
Interesting that Pere mentions Robert Harris. I find his style (based on only having read Conclave) too flabby but he does spin a good yarn. I do agree about feeling queasy about the suggestion that the English landlady had given her daughters to the parachutists. I felt uneasy about the tone at first, but I either got used to it, or it changed. I thought the description of the actual assassination and the aftermath was gripping and moving.
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