Heart rate
300 watchers
Nov 2018
12:48pm, 23 Nov 2018
13,658 posts
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Bazoaxe
The lack of progress in top end distance running is a real conundrum. I agree with Gobi, at the top end we are way short of what we had years ago and sub 2:12 runners are very hard to find. I think the UK only has 4 of those (Farah. Griffiths ,Hawkins and Thomson). I suspect in part its down to fewer people with the ability going down the athletics route as there is more money in other sports. The US and many other non African nations are in much the same position. But then there is japan who seem to have a large number of sub 2:10 runner and an even bigger group just behind or with very good HM times that have yet to try marathons. Ok, they are not quite at the African levels, but they are better than the rest. I do wonder why, and suspect distance running is more of a thing in japan. There is no doubt that there is also now a much bigger tail as people are attracted to the big events in a way that they were not when VLM first started |
Nov 2018
3:03pm, 23 Nov 2018
13,529 posts
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Chrisull
The Adharanand Finn book on Japanese running shows distance running is much more of an occasion, their equivalent of the Superbowl is the Ekiden relays that take place all day over the new year. It's televised: theguardian.com In fact the Japanese conundrum isn't how come they're so fast, but because they're so fanatical about, how come they aren't faster and dominating the world's top marathon races. |
Nov 2018
3:14pm, 23 Nov 2018
2,775 posts
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K5 Gus
Surely the answer to that question is simply that Japan is not at altitude, unlike the Rift Valley
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Nov 2018
3:16pm, 23 Nov 2018
13,531 posts
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Chrisull
Gus - Finn does explore that a bit in his book, and actually concludes the statistics don't show that altitude being a major component. (It is definitely a factor). He concludes that the Japanese students do insane training for the Ekiden, and burn themselves out early and never really reach their potential peaks.
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Nov 2018
4:15pm, 23 Nov 2018
13,660 posts
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Bazoaxe
There is definitely something about that East African region that puts people from that area in with an advantage over almost everyone else when it comes to distance running. We are sadly now seeing that some of those have been caught cheating which makes you wonder. However even those caught cheating start from a good position. i.e. a 2:10 guy getting to be a 2:05 guy or a 2:06 guy being in the 2:03/4 category - or equivalent for women. The Japanese I would say are closer to reaching potential and I don't think cheating is in their culture, but some clearly burn out or just do stupid things like Kawauchi |
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Nov 2018
5:36pm, 23 Nov 2018
13,534 posts
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Chrisull
Bazo - the other thing they've thought about the East African region is the Kalenjin tribe (of Kenya), they think have some genetic properties (such as higher hamstring to quad ratio, slimmer limbs and possibly a slightly longer than average muscle length connecting to the achilles tendon, (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3761913/ which give the advantage. I believe tendon length might not be genetic, but a natural occurrence of walking/running barefoot from a young age much more than other people. Most great Kenyan runners are Kalenjin - see: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/04/why-kenyans-make-such-great-runners-a-story-of-genes-and-cultures/256015/) and that this makes a difference. Altitude is less commonly mentioned... |
Nov 2018
12:37pm, 24 Nov 2018
2,931 posts
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steve45
My thoughts were a bit flippant maybe but when I was in my early thirties (forty years ago) I was nowhere near one of the faster runners in the club I belonged to and there were a mass of us who had markers of 1.30 for a half marathon, sub 70 minutes for 10 miles, sub 40 for 10k, and a marathon of four hours was very disappointing--sub 3.30 was the least to go for. That's not to denigrate anyone's efforts at all, people can only do what they can given the right recipe of genes and opportunity to train and they are all to be applauded no matter what their times. Mine are just crap these days!
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Nov 2018
1:39pm, 24 Nov 2018
65,445 posts
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Gobi
Steve - I have aged lamenting what has become acceptable. People I work with think any marathon is awesome and can't understand 16.xx 33.xx or even a 73.xx half. |
Nov 2018
2:12pm, 24 Nov 2018
990 posts
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oumaumau
Going back a few posts, Charlie Spedding supposes that the reason for reduced performance in domestic runners is down to a lack of reward. He suggests there's little point in training hard and turning out for a race only to be beaten by the imported east african team which has been paid for by the organisers, and scoops any prize pot. I'm nowhere near close enough to the front of any race to judge whether this is the case - all the quick boys and girls have long gone home by the time I finish a road race - but, anecdotally, when I marshalled the finish line of the Surrey half a few years ago, the first 4 men were from a performance team brought in by the organisers to set a stiff course record, and make it look a more competitive race.... |
Nov 2018
4:59pm, 24 Nov 2018
1,565 posts
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J2R
oumaumau, I heard exactly the same thing a few years ago from a fast local runner (2:17 marathoner in his time). That is, that the prize money was all being scooped up by organised East Africans, meaning that the way of life which people had before, where they could work a bit less and devote more time to training in the knowledge that they could pick up worthwhile prize money at the weekends, was no longer viable. I note now that a lot of races are stipulating that the prizes go to UK based runners, presumably to deal with this issue. (I feel sorry for the East Africans, who almost certainly need the money more than the locals do, but I see the necessity nonetheless, if athletic standards are not to slip).
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