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Feb 2009
11:29am, 19 Feb 2009
5,807 posts
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Rooa,
You have lots of great advice out there. In case you missed mine, I think you have looked at all your options and you should seriously consider going back to running for enjoyment for a month or so. By that I mean, run at whatever pace or intensity feels good to you. Don't get so rigid with the plans and outcomes. You can wear your HR monitor and save the data for analysis at a later time down the road. I don't mean this in a negative way at all but your terrain and surroundings are not ideal for rigid HR training nor is your mindset(and that is okay, many have enjoyed running without stricked HR training rules). If you vary your intensities and distances avoid running without niggles you should be okay. I also look forward to one day examining how you run. Sorry if I have repeated myself:( Enjoy your day:)
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Feb 2009
11:38am, 19 Feb 2009
4,866 posts
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hellen
I have a few thougths which came to mind when Roo said about her 85% run feeling easy. I think it depends on how you calibrate yourself. What I mean is for Roo that felt easy relative to the pace she normally would run at (pre HRMtraining). For me, before using the HRM I would do a LSR just below 80% and that would feel easy because in comparison to my other runs whcih were prob in the 80s it was easy.
Now I have slowed myself down 10.30/mile feels easy and the pace/HR I used to do my LSR at feels harder than it used to but I think that is because my easy has become easier and it is all relative if that makes sense.
The other thing I think, which is related to the 70% and 85% ceilings. They cannot possibly be the same for everyone. I run marathons at about 85%, others run marathons in the 70s, we are all giving it our all, its not that those in the 70s are slacking or that I am going to fast (well maybe a little to start with but I dont slow down by that much in the second hallf).
So, someone running a marathon at 75% (which I think is quite normal) is running that marathon not that much faster than their recovery pace. Mine is way faster than my recovery pace so surely I can have a higher % HR recovery pace to take account of the fact that for some reason I am able to sustain a marathon at 85%. Maybe this is why I had trouble running at 70% and didnt make any progress because 70% was too slow for me? I suspect that may be the case for Roo as well especially as she found her 85% LSR easy.
However, I do think that for me I need to go above 85% for my hard sessions, I dont have a problem getting up that high, 172 = 85%, my hard sessions tend to be in the 180s.
On the other hand Hendog runs quite a respectable 70% pace and even does a lot of runs in the low 60s, I might be wrong but I think his marathon HR is quite a lot lower than mine.
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Feb 2009
11:48am, 19 Feb 2009
22,835 posts
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Hendo
I'd like to contribute lots to this but am on phone. All very good stuff though.
We do say that Parker is a very coarse guide that is a very useful guide for beginners quite a lot on here, for the record.
Xxx
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Feb 2009
11:48am, 19 Feb 2009
1,190 posts
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Peacey
I agree with Bee that easy runs should be easy and 70% is just a round number and for that reason I won’t worry if I stray +/- over during runs.
I like this HR training and feel im benefitting from it but there isn’t enough time in my life certainly to analyze every single mile split for average/max hr and beat myself up if I stray into the grey zone, as Ian pointed out to me
Average WHR % for each run is how I’m going to assess myself and if I ‘Spike’ my HR during the session then whatever!
Surely all running benefits aerobic conditioning and that includes the grey zone, it’s about getting your training & sessions right which is important and 70% running is a large chunk of that.
As said in previous posts before, maybe not everyone’s grey zone is the same.
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Feb 2009
11:59am, 19 Feb 2009
105 posts
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sallykate
So here's a question, having read Hadd's post on Letsrun -- there are runners (me!) who enjoy it but really struggle to achieve anything like the paces that he talks about. Much of it must surely be down to inherent (genetic) ability level.
I am still assuming though that I will see some benefits from putting in the time to build base properly and work with heart rate -- at least, I am prepared to give it a go and will happily dismiss it if it hasn't worked for me in 3 - 6 months time. And it has the added benefit of making sure I don't overstress my totally knackered back.
What would Hadd say about novice (less than 2 years regular running) 40 year olds who struggle to do a single mile in under 9 mins and are still dreaming of a sub-hour 10K -- or would he not be concerned with such lowly creatures? What does Parker say? Does anyone address those of us who just want to get to comfortable 9.30-10mm pace?
Rhetorical questions really, not expecting any definitive answer!
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Feb 2009
12:12pm, 19 Feb 2009
1,217 posts
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sally read my earlier post for simplicity please
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Feb 2009
12:12pm, 19 Feb 2009
17,710 posts
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Sally as Hendo intimated I think Parker is pitched at beginners as a rough guide to learning how to run easy on easy days and hard on hard days rather than becoming a one pace threshold pony...
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Feb 2009
12:32pm, 19 Feb 2009
919 posts
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paul the builder
Sally - there are lots of quicker blokes on that Letsrun thread, don't get too hung up on the paces there. I'm not!
I think Hadd would advise running at 70% WHR, if that converted for you in to a pace where you felt that you were running (or jogging, that's OK too). If not, then I guess he'd say go a little quicker until you *did* feel like it was a comfortable jog. If you then keep the pace there, you should be able to see that the HR comes down in order to run that pace after a few months (and your PBs too).
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Feb 2009
1:07pm, 19 Feb 2009
876 posts
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Deenzy
I think there is a consensus on here that Roo and others should not beat themselves up if their 70% pace is too slow and should just increase it to a bearable pace. Surely we cant all be in agreement!! 
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Feb 2009
1:15pm, 19 Feb 2009
5,808 posts
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I just finished a pleasant run with a client 2.5mi @12:47mm / WHR 39% / 198spm. Though this pace is not typical for my training I am learnig to enjoy slow running:)
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