Carbon plate rebound shoes ?
1 lurker |
11 watchers
Jul 2022
10:28pm, 12 Jul 2022
77,375 posts
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Gobi
Unless you keep the same shoes from 5 years ago then even a normal pair of new shoes is progress. Crack on larkim it's your illusion mate :¬) I plod around in various non carbon stuff myself |
Jul 2022
10:29pm, 12 Jul 2022
18,444 posts
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larkim
I should add, for me (and me only!) it's the big jump that makes the difference. Before the 4%s came out, I was happy to try racing specific shoes as I knew they would be "faster", just not "loads faster". Progress is progress. My day to day shoes would probably be treated as racing magic in the 1960s. That's fine by me. I'm no luddite. |
Jul 2022
10:39pm, 12 Jul 2022
6,981 posts
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The_Saint
I think we should also go back to estimating race distances and timing by sundial. After all runners were faster then. For example legendary Welsh runner Guto Nyth Bran en.m.wikipedia.org "Guto was born in Llwyncelyn, a small village found today in the community of Porth. It was said that his talent first came to prominence as he was helping his father herd sheep, when he managed to chase and catch a wild hare. Once locals heard of this there were new rumours every day of him catching hares, foxes and birds. One such legend has him running from his home to the local town of Pontypridd and back, a total distance of some 7 miles (11 km), before his mother's kettle had boiled" |
Jul 2022
10:45pm, 12 Jul 2022
1,420 posts
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paulcook
If we're going to argue about whether the shoes are cheating, or whether we want to go back years and years to estimated distances and times, then can I argue that the advent of these shoes, is because the sport is partly broken? And almost nothing demonstrates it more than Kipchoge's sub-2 attempt in whatever carbon plated shoes he wore. It seems to me, that much of running isn't about wonderful rivalries and competition any more, but so much more about the time. Anyway, whether I'm right or completely blindingly wrong, I suspect I've wildly gone on a tangent to this intended thread. |
Jul 2022
10:58pm, 12 Jul 2022
37,405 posts
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SPR
It's pretty clear IMO that the rules pre the shoes essentially tried to rule out shoes giving athletes advantages. Nike used their power in the sport to get them in and the talk at the time was that other shoe companies also thought they were illegal. The rules are what they are now though so there's no going back. |
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Jul 2022
9:26am, 13 Jul 2022
18,446 posts
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larkim
The rules didn't have to work too hard to achieve that though did they? And they did tolerate the big names marketing their equipment as being better / faster etc as they were safe in the knowledge that no-one had yet discovered the magic formula of height / stiffness / energy return that would mine the untapped seam of improvements in running economy that are achieved through the shoes. I'm not blaming IAAF / WA though. No-one knew that opportunity existed to the degree that we now know about. There's nervousness that there is another potential "leap" in the labs that might appear at some point; I'm sceptical about that, but if you'd said to anyone in 2010 that a formulation of a shoe would come along within that decade that would definitely and provably shave 60s+ (and probably more) off their marathon bests for the majority of elite runners (accepting that there are some non-responders out there) I suspect you'd have been laughed at. I ran my all time 5k PB 4 years ago in a pair of Ravenna 8s. I ran my marathon PB in a pair of Launch GTS. If I ever beat either of those PBs I want it to be down to my own personal improvement, and the best way for me to see that is to try to stick with similar shoes as best as I can. OTOH, if I was in my 30s and still had the prospect of going faster and faster, I'd buy and race in the magic shoes like a shot. |
Jul 2022
11:06am, 13 Jul 2022
1,170 posts
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fuzzyduck79
I do blame the IAAF/WA and their far too cosy relationship with Nike and would roll back the technology which I don't believe is fair (different users have wildly differing responses) and makes a slight mockery of the sport (look at the world records for road events in the last 5 years) Here's what happened when a company other than Nike produced a shoe with much improved energy return that increased performance: espn.com highsnobiety.com The argument that a spring is bad but springy foam is good isn't worth making in my view. A spring is just a way to use materials that returns energy better than older shoes did. Same goes for Pebax type foam. Puma also had a superspike banned all the way back in the 60s: si.com I run in the supershoes because I'm fast enough to win prize money at the odd race and don't want people who have bought the shoes beating me just because I came to a gunfight armed with a spoon. If some races started banning supershoes I'd happily compete without them. But 95% of top runners aren't interested, they are in love with the idea that their vastly improved times are a result of their hard work. So non supershoe races are a non starter. I've accepted this but I still convert every result I get back to what I think it would be without them. |
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Jul 2022
12:19pm, 13 Jul 2022
37,406 posts
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SPR
Pretty much agree with that FD. Unfortunately Nike pay a lot of money into the sport that as paulcook suggested is struggling a bit. I also think the issue is sport is competition not times so sub 2 garnered some publicity but then is forgotten while rivalry can last a while and hold interest in the sport
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Jul 2022
10:58pm, 13 Jul 2022
2,341 posts
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Totriornottotri
Ha ha.. great thread. If this was on IWOAAR (I’m blocked obvs) I’d be winding people up about how courses were just 4% shorter in the 80s 😂
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Jul 2022
9:57am, 14 Jul 2022
8,894 posts
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Son of a Pronator Man
IWOAAR ???
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