|
Jan 2017
1:30pm, 10 Jan 2017
15,196 posts
|
Chrisity
This is for 2012, the interesting figures for me are the two distance percentages for Swimming and Running are the highest. perhaps this indicates that the women's marathon record is as expected.
|
|
Jan 2017
1:57pm, 10 Jan 2017
1,588 posts
|
larkim
The Bannister comparison is fair to a degree. There was a plan (tried out at one stage if my information is correct) to use one pacer to run at such a slow pace so that one the final lap Bannister caught him and then had a fresh pacer as the "slow" runner put in a fast final lap.
Assuming the course is not massively downhill and not massively wind assisted, then if Kipchoge covers 26.2miles in less than 2 hours, then I think most people will accept that it has been done, even if the IAAF doesn't.
Yes, we're missing out on Kipchoge vs Bekele perhaps at the height of their powers. But who's to say we'd see that anyway? There's no guarantee that either the race organiser's pockets would be deep enough or that both of them would want to race each other and risk their reputations being damaged by losing to the other.
|
|
Jan 2017
2:24pm, 10 Jan 2017
23,383 posts
|
SPR
Don't know what the plan was but Bannister ran his in a normal race not different from how records are set atm. It was a mental barrier and never a real physiological barrier as evidenced by Landy doing it 46 days later.
London has consistently shown it will pay for the best race.
"Assuming the course is not massively downhill and not massively wind assisted, then if Kipchoge covers 26.2miles in less than 2 hours, then I think most people will accept that it has been done, even if the IAAF doesn't."
Lol, that's the kind of BS that's needed for a sub 2 at this point. A half starting with 59 is actually a good time ATM. Another thing that this is disrespectful to is the training these guys have done to get where they are. It's like you didn't know what you were doing we'll come in and revolutionise everything *rolls eyes*
|
|
Jan 2017
2:31pm, 10 Jan 2017
192 posts
|
Dowse
I'm not sure it was entirely a mental barrier, quite a few physical things improved that allowed it to happen. Shoes, track materials, nutrition, training plans, clothing, etc.
(https://www.ted.com/talks/david_epstein_are_athletes_really_getting_faster_better_stronger)
I'm not sure I really agree with Nike artificially trying to get sub 2.0, but is what they're really doing all that different to what has occurred "naturally" over the last 100 years?
|
|
Jan 2017
2:34pm, 10 Jan 2017
23,384 posts
|
SPR
Have you ever had a clubmate run a time and realise if they can do it so can you? That's Bannister. Nike? Oh I can but I need X conditions, and sub 2 shoks *rolls eyes *
|
|
Jan 2017
2:39pm, 10 Jan 2017
1,589 posts
|
larkim
Believe me, I understand the reservations about it. But if we want to get all pure and perfectionist about it, road world records should be set without pacemakers or drafting on courses with no net elevation change between the start and the finish and with wind indexing throughout the course to avoid variability. And men shouldn't pace women.
But we are where we are. I'm sitting on the fence on this a little at the moment as the Nike guys haven't been particularly open at this point as to what special conditions they are wanting to put in place. There are things I am OK with (waiting for the perfect weather, running it as a time trial rather than a race, running it on a lap course with multiple refreshment stops), there are things I am concerned about ("illegal" shoes or other clothing that wouldn't normally be allowed) and there are things I've not made my mind up about (lapped pacers to allow for pacing right to the end).
If the course is not net down hill, then whatever aids are put in place if a runner covers the tarmac in less than 2 hours they will have run a marathon distance in under 2 hours, and I don't think that is arguable.
The point I was making about Bannister was that they were prepared to at least consider putting in special arrangements to make sub-4 happen. And that was in a different time.
Today major track venues are built deliberately with "fast" tracks for sprinters. Spikes and other apparel are specifically designed for improved performance. Pace makers are allowed for up to the full distance (provided they start on the same start line). We already allow a significant amount of "artificial" help to achieve WRs and course records. Nike it seems to me are just going a little further, but we don't at the moment know how much further.
I disagree that it is disrespectful. It's a challenge. Kipchoge could have told them where to go, and he hasn't. He's not daft, he's been around this sport for long enough to have a clear head on his shoulders about why he is doing this. I say wait and see what the actual event looks like, and then judge afterwards if you think it is a sub 2hr attempt with merit or not. And give the athletes a little bit of respect back by allowing them the freedom to have chosen to particpate in this of their own free will.
|
|
Jan 2017
2:58pm, 10 Jan 2017
23,385 posts
|
SPR
Finally, the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in Nike's Sub 2 project, the cynics and the sceptics: I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles.
😂
|
|
Jan 2017
3:18pm, 10 Jan 2017
10,817 posts
|
Bazoaxe
There was some doubt on Bannister at the time as there was a rule that pacers had to finish the race for it to be counted as a record and officials had to be sure that Chataway and Brasher who jogged in the rest after their pacing was finished were not hampered by the celebrating crowds.
This is something that no longer applies and pacers no longer need to finish a race, albeit the odd one or two do finish, but mostly race no more than 30k in a marathon, or one lap in an 800m.
|
|
Jan 2017
3:21pm, 10 Jan 2017
15,198 posts
|
Chrisity
Be nice to see the pacer must finish rule, i can see X winning and breaking the record to win $ 1 million, and pacemaker Y standing just in front of the finish line saying It will cost you $200, 000 or i don't finish.
|
|
Jan 2017
4:43pm, 10 Jan 2017
6,012 posts
|
Too Much Water
Tadese surely in there as the pacer?
|
European Championships 2022
Aug 2022