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Apr 2023
12:02pm, 27 Apr 2023
4,775 posts
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Dillthedog
I think, as Canute says, the studies are of a low number of people, and have so many other variables that cannot be controlled. We aren't going to get a definitive answer that running marathons is good or bad for us, but have to make out own minds up. I know that running has a hugely positive effect on my physical and mental fitness, and I would include running marathons in that. They may possibly have a negative effect on my heart in the future, but will also have a lot of positive effects. I will take my chances, but if I keel over in the next few days, you can read this out at my funeral.
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Apr 2023
12:09pm, 27 Apr 2023
20,998 posts
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larkim
It's so hard to see concrete data coming out for lifetime impacts of marathon running and training. Marathons are the most intense thing I do in my life, coupled with the most intense 3 months of preparation for it. I can see that that level of stress must carry some downsides as well as upsides.
But what is life if it isn't about doing the things you enjoy whilst you can?
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Apr 2023
2:29pm, 27 Apr 2023
4,618 posts
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J2R
My non-scientific hunch take on this is that, while it's pretty clear that lifelong endurance training can lead to things like increased risk of atrial fibrillation and atherosclerosis, I suspect a very substantial percentage of these hard-core lifelong athletes haven't been that focussed on recovery when they were younger. There does seem to have been a kind of training machismo approach in the past, with huge mileage and toughing it out.
I would imagine that if you follow a more polarised approach and do the vast majority of your training below VT1, and allow adequate recovery from the tough sessions, you can probably keep it going for decades without problems. Just a hunch, though, as I say!
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Apr 2023
3:01pm, 27 Apr 2023
2,986 posts
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tipsku
I agree with that, J2R. The detrimental effects that older runners see today might have been accumulated from decades of 'no pain, no gain' mentality.
I'm firmly in the polarized camp, running most of my training volume below VT1 or MAF HR. I deliberately ignored the pace suggestions in the P&D for the endurance runs and kept them nice and easy even if that was 2 min slower per mile than my target marathon pace. I still nailed 7:57 avg pace in the race even though the average pace of my training in the 18 weeks leading up to it was 9:57. Nice and easy does the trick with a few hard sessions as the cherry on top.
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Apr 2023
3:14pm, 27 Apr 2023
14,773 posts
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jda
Perhaps a mistake to speculate too much on a single case but Steve Shanks looks like he was only M45 with a decade or so of serious running.
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Apr 2023
6:06pm, 27 Apr 2023
4,620 posts
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J2R
Something which interests me is finding what the benefits are of training in a really low heart rate zone. As I recover from my heart attack in February, I'm necessarily keeping things low-key for a while. I'm running and cycling, but I'm also doing a fair bit of brisk walking. I just did a little 2.3 mile walk at an average pace of a little over 4mph off-road - not blisteringly fast but definitely brisk. My heart rate averaged 82bpm for this, which is less than 50% of my HRmax. Nobody talks about the benefit of training at 50%, and yet I have no doubt whatsoever this is beneficial in terms of building mitochondria, etc. It feels like a workout, albeit a light one, rather than a casual stroll. It feels like it's doing good.
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Apr 2023
7:23pm, 27 Apr 2023
23,775 posts
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Dave A
When I was walking training in 2017, be it without a HRM, the improvements I got in a short space or time were a lot. And because it was all low impact, I recovered quickly.
I was doing a mix of dog walking at around 3 mph (they are a lot slower now) than brisk walking.
At peak I was covering over 100 mpw and felt fresh all the way through.
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Apr 2023
7:26pm, 27 Apr 2023
4,622 posts
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J2R
I must say a good part of what I'm doing now is training for overall metabolic health as much as running fitness, and the walking forms a big part of this, providing decent training volume at a lower intensity. I try to get out twice a day, once walking, the other time running or cycling.
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Apr 2023
7:29pm, 27 Apr 2023
2,664 posts
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Canute
J2R, I agree that medium fast walking with HR in Z1 is beneficial for aerobic fitness.
My hypothesis is that during medium fast walking you do engage some type 2 (fast twitch) fibres. These fibres generate a substantial proportion of the energy they require anaerobically, thereby producing lactate. Because type 1 and type 2 fibres are in close proximity in the large muscles, this lactate is transported directly into type 1 (slow twitch ) fibres where it is utilised as fuel (via aerobic metabolism). Thus there is no accumulation of lactate in blood, consistent with HR in Z1. However exposing the type 1 fibres to lactate promotes an adaptive increase in the capacity of these type 1 fibres to utilise the lactate as fuel. There is likely to be enhancement of the mechanism for transporting lactate into the type 1 fibres and also some enhancement of the mitochondrial enzymes. The overall effect is an increase in your ability to handle lactate, enhanced fatigue resistence, and perhaps a small enhancement of VO2max.
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Apr 2023
8:23pm, 27 Apr 2023
4,623 posts
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J2R
Very interesting, Canute, thanks!
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Daniels Running Formula. The Definitive Wire.
Jul 2023