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Glenmore 12/24

20 watchers

santababy Aug 2014 2:18pm, 28 Aug 2014 70,823 posts	0 santababy drinks whisky every night and devours huge bags kettle crisps then there's Paul Giblin, turned vegan for his sport. Lucy colquon, another one who doesnt do back to backs... record holder... i could go on and on
jacdaw Aug 2014 2:25pm, 28 Aug 2014 984 posts	0 jacdaw HappyG, have you read Relentless Forward Progress? It isn't perfect, but it is a book, subtitled "A Guide to Running Ultramarathons". amazon.co.uk
HappyG(rrr) Aug 2014 3:22pm, 28 Aug 2014 22,661 posts	0 HappyG(rrr) Got it, read it, not prescriptive enough! I guess I need to find/build my own way! I don't like to look at examples of elites (such as Kate J and Lucy C) because they are, well, special. I'm looking more for "what do most of the 50th - 150th place out of 500 do"? Esp if they are blokes, over 40 etc. As I say, you can get marathon books that give you that, but not ultra. I suspect I probably know most of the theory. I just need to write it down, then go do it. And for an "improver" (i.e. more than a beginner, but certainly not highly experienced) it will: * total more than the 1,000 miles per year (FR! ) (prob 59-70 mile per week average for the 14-16 weeks pre race. * have back to backs and/or longer long runs, not precious about which * be mostly slow , but have some (1 per week) speed work * have some hills, hill reps and specific hill and tough terrain strengthening * keep the cross train (bike, swim) * keep the general flexibility and tlc like Pilates etc. * be a learning experience, including training and build up races * be fun! G
Ultracat Aug 2014 3:38pm, 28 Aug 2014 11,009 posts	0 Ultracat It's been a while since I ran an ultra, have ran 2 24 hour races. I don't think I ran any more than I would if I was training for a marathon, I did do more cross training and more walking. I pulled out after getting to 100k in the first 24 hour hour due to injury. The second one I was determined to out there on the track for 24 hours and managed over 80 miles, the last few miles were a slow hobble. It does help having good support looking after everything else so you can just concentrate on running.
hellen Aug 2014 3:56pm, 28 Aug 2014 14,672 posts	0 hellen happy I think that you will find for ultras people do so many different things. If you were to take someone aiming for a sub 3 hour marathon then when you were doing that and comparing notes with others you would find a lot of similarities. There would be the odd out lier but a lot of similarities. When it comes to ultras that is not the case. I think a lot of this is down to peoples work/ home life and how dedicated they are/how much they are prepared to give up. So to go to what Santa says Paul became vegan, that shoes dedication as he believed that was the best. I remember a conversation with FR about food/weight loss and he just didn't want it enough to give up his pies or whatever it was. That's OK that's his decision does as well as he can doesn't mean as much to him as it does to Paul. People who have families or long working hours are limited as to what training they can do so might go more for quality rather than quantity. I think that I read/listened to a podcast and Lucy said she didn't do B2B but she walked her dogs a long way on the second day????
HappyG(rrr) Aug 2014 4:16pm, 28 Aug 2014 22,662 posts	0 HappyG(rrr) Exactly hellen, that's the kind of thing I'm trying to get at - is doing a long walk beneficial? I don't lack motivation, or time, but I'm still interested in making the best of the time that I put in. If a certain type of food would help, I would consider it (I know that weight loss was def beneficial for getting my marathon time down. I hated doing it, but was prepared to, in order to give myself the best chance of achieving my goal). The fact that different people have different time available, motivation, abilities and approaches shouldn't stop there being some good general guidance, for how to tackle things. I suspect it's just too new as a mass participation sport to have enough volume of data and studies to be able to be definitive about. I suspect it will come though! And I bet there's more that's common than we think: I bet more miles = better performances (with appropriate cut back to avoid injury / cumulative fatigue) = better performances. I bet more hill work = better at hills, hence better performances on a course with hills (most of them in Scotland!). I bet being lower weight, or lowering one's weight = better performances. I bet a good long weekly long run (with appropriate cut back to avoid injury / cumulative fatigue) = better performances. I bet more cross train/strength work = fewer injuries (hence more training, hence better performances). I bet getting used to the types of food you are going to eat in the race = less likely to have food issues on the day = better performances. I bet getting used to the kit you will wear on the day, and confidence in shoe/sock/footcare = less likely to have issues on the day, hence better performances etc. And in marathons there is a huge variation too, in what people do, not in the general thinking. And all the above applies. So anyone who thinks they can do their best marathon off tiny mileage or no long runs, or while overweight or trying to short cut any of the above is just kidding themselves. There's the odd mega talent who does a 2:45 off nothing, but usually they could still have done much better, with improved training. It's trying to define what is that improved training, that I'm trying to get at. I think I know what that is for marathons. Most of the different marathon training methods are incredibly similar, even those that try to make out that they are very different (like Run Less, Run Faster by Runners World / Furman). So I'm looking for similar consensus in ultra land. Not about what people actually do (which as you say, is dependent on personal circumstances, motivation etc.) But on what we could/should do, to get to our best. (I can't necessarily do all of it but I'd like to know what that is!) I think I may need to move this to a blog, cos it sounds a bit rant-y (even to me!) Thanks for all your advice/input so far. G
jacdaw Aug 2014 4:21pm, 28 Aug 2014 985 posts	0 jacdaw Just go and write the book. I'll buy it.
hellen Aug 2014 4:25pm, 28 Aug 2014 14,673 posts	0 hellen I think that what works for one doesn't always work for others. If I start doing hill work I get injured for some reason me and hills don't go Some people find they perform better on lower miles more quality I am the other way round, if I do more quality I get injured/too tired. So I don't think there is an optimal one size fits all
hellen Aug 2014 4:26pm, 28 Aug 2014 14,674 posts	0 hellen and I think that walking does help if you are going to walk in races. On some 24 hour track races I have been overtaken by older slower shorter ladies than myself whilst we have both been walking. I would cover much more distance at 24 hours if I could walk faster so for me walk training is good but I don't do it much
FenlandRunner Aug 2014 4:27pm, 28 Aug 2014 2,452 posts	0 FenlandRunner First rule of Ultra running. Don't over think and over complicate it. Second rule have fun.