At sea with targets and appropriate paces...

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hopisen Feb 2012 6:17pm, 3 Feb 2012 24 posts	0 hopisen A bit of background. I've lost a fair bit of weight in the last six months (about four and a half stone), and perhaps unsurprsingly, my running has improved exponentially. Last year I got my 10k time to 47.30 (from 57) and my half to 1h 51m (from 2h 09m). This year I'd like a Marathon PB, down from 4h 53m, and ideally sub 4.30. I'm really enjoying my training, and in prep for the Marathon of the North have managed increased volume (for me..) without either injury or problem. But now I'm lost because I don't know how I should be training. Having improved, I can't seem to work out what I might be capable of, or how to train. For example, I worry I'm pushing myself too hard on Long Slow Runs, but maybe I'm not pushing myself hard enough on Intervals or being ambitious enough on targets? My last LSR was 32k at just under 10k/hr, which was what I was planning for race pace. Heartrate seems to average out at about 150 for most LSRs, against a max of 194. Doesn't feel like a struggle, except sometimes uphill. On intervals, my standard session at the mo is 4x 1k with 400m jog recoveries, trying to do each K in around 4 mins. This does feel hard. I also parkrun, and as my home parkrun is a little short according to garmingwould guess my realseem to dip under 23min time for that. When I enter my different times into running calculators I get hugely different paces... So any advice about what paces to train at for intervals, LSRs and pace runs hugely welcome.
icemaiden Feb 2012 6:31pm, 3 Feb 2012 3,098 posts	0 icemaiden Welll done on your progress. You could try plugging your best HM and 10K times through the McMillan calculator mcmillanrunning.com and see what it suggests for LSR paces. You're probably best off using the slightly slower times that the HM predicts, but there's some overlap. LSRs should be steady and your last effort saw some speeding up and down. And slower than predicted race pace. McMillan predicts sub 4 off the back of 1:51 HM, which might be optimistic but good for sub 4:30! If you use a HRM go on over the Heart Rate thread http://www.fetcheveryone.com/viewtopic.php?id=3882 for some advice and help.
hopisen Feb 2012 6:44pm, 3 Feb 2012 25 posts	0 hopisen Thanks icemaiden - appreciate your help. The Macmillan site seems to suggest that my overall LSR pace is ok, if a touch on the fast side, but that I'm running intervals and tempo runs far too fast. I suspect the speeding up and down is related to traffic lights and a couple of pretty sharp hills! So should I ease off on the intervals and parkrun pace? After all, don't want to get injured!
icemaiden Feb 2012 7:10pm, 3 Feb 2012 3,099 posts	0 icemaiden What marathon are you targetting? If one in the spring, then you need a plan of some sort to follow. If one in the autumn you can do what you like until about 16 to 20 weeks before, when you need a plan! If you do intervals at the McMillan pace they will do you good! If you are a regular parkrunner, which you seem to be it would count as a 'tempo' or other short hard session and you can do it as fast as you like! Your ParkRun and 10K speeds are well matched, it's the longer distances that need speeding up a bit.
sprouty76 Feb 2012 7:14pm, 3 Feb 2012 1,608 posts	0 sprouty76 I generally use Mcmillan for my training paces. I usually do parkruns at tempo pace, but occasionally do them flat out to gauge my progress. Great job on the weight loss, by the way!
ogee Feb 2012 7:18pm, 3 Feb 2012 17,997 posts	0 ogee Hi hopisen, there's a sub 4.30 marathon thread on here & the folk there should be able to help you achieve your goal. Here's the link http://www.fetcheveryone.com/viewtopic.php?id=47749 On no account go here http://www.fetcheveryone.com/viewtopic.php?id=25595 Or here http://www.fetcheveryone.com/viewtopic.php?id=10360 Good luck with your quest.
Mrs Winkle Feb 2012 7:30pm, 3 Feb 2012 5,689 posts	0 Mrs Winkle Nothing to add Hopisen - but hello! I know your girlfriend through another forum. Good to see you here
SpicedApple Feb 2012 7:46pm, 3 Feb 2012 5,678 posts	0 SpicedApple Well done on the weight loss and improving your running, hopisen! Good stuff. Can I just ask a quick question about the McMillan calculator, which I've just seen for the first time: do you do your training at a pace calculated on the basis of a previous race time, or on the basis of your (reasonable) target time?
JohnnyO Feb 2012 7:46pm, 3 Feb 2012 11,372 posts	0 JohnnyO attackpoint.org Have that. Put your current best time in, with its corresponding distance, and marvel as tempo, interval and long run paces are spewed forth.
Mrs Winkle Feb 2012 7:59pm, 3 Feb 2012 5,691 posts	0 Mrs Winkle Is that with or without a Dyson Johnny?