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Nov 2023
9:59pm, 28 Nov 2023
22,724 posts
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larkim
The debate is only different I think in that it is pretty clear that lots of female xc adults want to keep the shorter distance, irrespective of the principles. Without a groundswell from the masses of female participants finishing in places 50-200 there's no real imperative or force for change.
That's what I was trying to get at.
At junior ages that doesn't apply. Which makes counties like Shropshire where the distances are unequal from u13 upwards pretty horrifically backwards.
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Nov 2023
4:15pm, 29 Nov 2023
22,727 posts
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larkim
Interesting that the equality diminishes steadily through the age groups. But in terms of overall distance, U20W are the ones with the biggest gap to their male counterparts with the men running over 41% further (on average), compared to just over 38% for the SenW v SenM.
Anyone know the distances for Cumbria, Herefordshire, Humberside, Kent or Staffordshire for this season's races?
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Nov 2023
8:01pm, 29 Nov 2023
4,564 posts
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Curly45
What's the point of junior races larkim? Could part of it be to step athletes up to the next distance when they move up an age group in prep for senior races?
If senior women's races are shorter then junior women's and girls races also will need to be shorter. Or more precisely, not step up as agreesively as the junior men do.
% increase up age group within gender is interesting. You lose a proportion of athletes at each step up in age, and this is particular problem in junior women (u20 age group is very thin in general). New athletes come in to replace them at senior, but not sure equalising distance for girls ages groups will help with drop out rates.
My preference if you want it equal would be to reduce the junior boys and men's distances. Plenty of good XC to be had on shorter courses. Mansfield relays being one example.
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Nov 2023
8:38pm, 29 Nov 2023
2,473 posts
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stuart little
At a quick look, Humberside this year is:
U11 2.1k
U13 2.6k
U15 4k
U17 5.8k
U20 5.8 / 8.1k
Sen 8.1k / 10k
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Nov 2023
9:40pm, 29 Nov 2023
22,730 posts
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larkim
Thanks Stuart - where did you track that down?
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Nov 2023
9:47pm, 29 Nov 2023
22,731 posts
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larkim
I've no real skin in the game in terms of wanting equalisation at a specific distance Curly whether that's men reducing distances or women increasing them; I just think in this day and age there is no reason for any differential in distance for the same sport, unless the key is time - in which case having the female events as 85-90% of the male distances would at least make sense in terms of typically observed time differences between male and female competitors over consistent distances.
And yes of course you're right that if the distances don't ultimately increase as much for female competitors, then the junior races should reflect this. Oddly that logic doesn't seem to consistently apply.
And (as a man!) I do absolutely recognise the reality that most female XC competitors appear to want the status quo to persist because they like it that way! I'm sure there are men who would love to run shorter, and women who would love to run longer too, but they do appear to be in the minority at the moment.
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Nov 2023
9:48am, 30 Nov 2023
1,310 posts
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stilldreaming
I'm sure I've said this before somewhere, but in our XC league men and women run together over same distance (10kish). Seems to work for us.
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Nov 2023
1:21pm, 30 Nov 2023
22,735 posts
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larkim
Our local less formal Sunday XC League, which comprises mainly "running clubs" rather than "T&F clubs that also run" is one race, all men and women together, same distance.
Our local bigger leagues are similar - Manchester Area XC League does equal distances to U17, then has a separate M&F race for the U20 / Sen with women on abou 8k vs 10k men. Mid Lans League does equal to U15 I think, then shorterns the female races for categories above that.
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Nov 2023
3:12pm, 30 Nov 2023
2,474 posts
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stuart little
Thanks Stuart - where did you track that down?
By being in humberside 
It's all a bit word of mouth between clubs tbh
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Nov 2023
3:42pm, 30 Nov 2023
22,736 posts
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larkim
LOL! The CAU intercounties website links Humberside's info to the Northern Athletics website (as it does with Cumbria) but info is scant on there.
As an aside, it's quite impressive how routinely shocking the websites are for county AAs. THey are mostly relics from the late 1990s / early 2000s it seems, rarely updated and usually impossible to find anything on!
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