Furman Institute of Running and Scientific Training (F.I.R.S.T.) acolytes!
118 watchers
Jul 2021
2:55pm, 6 Jul 2021
39,093 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Which marathon, when, and what are you hoping to target time wise, versus what you've achieved before?
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Jul 2021
3:04pm, 6 Jul 2021
28,966 posts
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macca 53
Another lapsed furmanite here with my two pennorth! When I was doing it I noticed that my long slow runs were done basically at about 70% effort so I changed to carrying them out to heart rate rather than pace (140 bpm). This is also the basis for most aerobic gain. The sprint sessions were very hard! I have often heard it said that mostly in running clubs run our “slow” runs too quickly and our speed sessions too slowly and I think I agree with that! Good luck and work hard but you definitely have to do five days of hard work a week |
Jul 2021
4:06pm, 6 Jul 2021
6,811 posts
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FenlandRunner
Yep, you're spot on macca. Club runners do seem very one paced and miss out on a whole range of improvements. I read today something that rang very true. Easy runs should feel even easier than envisaged, but hard runs should feel harder. |
Jul 2021
5:34pm, 6 Jul 2021
3 posts
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ES-335
The marathon is in Nov - 16 weeks trading to start next week. It’s a fairly casual one by the River Thames and my aspiration is to finish! Although I’d take a respectable time, is that below 4:30 seems reasonable if my half is ~ 2 hours. With respect to aerobic fitness if longer slower rows help I can certainly do that. Here’s an interesting comparison thewiredrunner.com The summary: In reality, it probably is best to do a little bit of both to get the best of both worlds—the cardiovascular benefits of running and the muscle and endurance building of rowing. |
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Jul 2021
10:33am, 7 Jul 2021
39,097 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Interesting comparison. However, the question they are answering is "better work out", whereas the challenge that I proposed was what is "better for your marathon training"? Which I think is relevant to all of us. And my conclusion was that that more running was better for marathon, rather than more of any type of cross training! No sh*t Sherlock you might think. But it's enticing to think that similar amount of any cross train (swim, bike, row etc.) would give you similar benefit. In pure CV terms perhaps yes. But specificity - the building of soft tissue resilience, specific muscle strength and capability etc. No. So I think you need to do *more* of the cross train than the equivalent time running to try to close that benefit gap. Not the same, and certainly not less. A running only training plan with e.g. 50 miles per week would be roughly 7-10 hours per week, depending how fast/slow you run! If you do 25 of FIRST, then you need to find 3-5 hours of additional cross-training, or more! That was one of my findings. Caveat, only did it for less than a year, and only did one marathon PB attempt off it. Then went back to P&D (Pfitzinger and Douglas, Advanced Marathoning) programmes for next 3 to get my PB. So limited sample set, I completely accept!  G
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Jul 2021
5:00pm, 7 Jul 2021
4 posts
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ES-335
Thanks - I’ve bought the book which is much more detailed. I do agree that to train for a marathon run event you probably can’t beat actual running. I’m committed now so I’ll have to do some variation of FIRST I think. Noting your comments around beefing the cross training up. I’ll have to be realistic with the running as well 2/3 sometime all 3 of my runs are done later at night - 9 even 10pm isn’t unusual. So whilst I can do PB 5ks around 23 mins fasted on Sunday morning with maybe just a coffee inside me. I can’t get near my best times that late in the day being more tired and fully fed. I’m going to work out my FIRST key run paces based on a 5k of 26 mins I think. It should keep it all manageable looking at the tables. Fingers crossed! |
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Aug 2021
6:33pm, 25 Aug 2021
22 posts
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ES-335
Just thought I’d give a quick update. I’m 7 weeks in and happy with the programme. I’m really enjoying the Key Run 1 which is the speed session and is a new approach to running for me. I also entered a HM on week 5 and although the plan doesn’t recommend it I raced it and beat my best by 5 mins. I don’t read too much into that as I’d only attempted the distance on 3 previous occasions, but I felt strong and on a hilly route (for me) managed to completed it with negative splits. I’m sure the speed sessions helped there. I’ll report in again if anyone is interested after the 26.2 with an update. My aspirations have changed from wanting to finish to going sub 4 hours. We will see… |
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Aug 2021
9:55pm, 25 Aug 2021
39,542 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
That's brilliant ES335. Glad it's going well for you. Do keep us posted. G
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Dec 2021
9:50am, 6 Dec 2021
68 posts
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JPF
ES 335 - Just wondering how your November marathon went - and how well you think the Furman plan worked for you
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Jan 2022
11:29pm, 4 Jan 2022
27 posts
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ES-335
Hi - sorry JPF been a bit absent from the forum and forgot to update. I loved the Furman plan. 3 days a week running with 2 days cross training and then some strength work at the gym and a boxing session once a week is enough. Not a lot of rest in fact. It is important to do the cross training I think I got about 20 rows in varying from 1 hour steady ones, to 30 mins and some interval/ladder stuff. I picked up two injuries over the 16 week plan. One niggle that resulted in a couple of missed runs, then I completely put my back out 2 weeks before the event. So I couldn’t do hardly any training in the last 2 weeks i.e. the taper. I managed 2 swims, 1 row and a short run. I entered the marathon still not fully recovered, but a sports massage a few days before, some pills and deep heat got me through relatively painlessly. Time wasn’t bad - missed the sub 4 - but only by 5 mins! I met my original goal of finishing though. I didn’t hit the wall or stop, in fact I ran it quite well my splits were pretty consistent which all suggests the plan prepared me accordingly. On the day the disappointment was huge, probably why I didn’t rush to update. I know I should be pleased to finish but I’d set the goal and training was falling in line. I know I’ve got a sub 4 in me so I’m going to do it all again later this year probably around April time. Sorry for the ramble - happy to answer any questions on the plan. I’ll be using it again or a variation of it. No intention of running more than 3 days a week, but might tweak it a little bit. I enjoyed the speed work - a new running style for me. |
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