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Feb 2022
12:56pm, 22 Feb 2022
4,094 posts
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J2R
@Brunski, if you want something like the 30/30s where your HR doesn't drop much during the recoveries, have a look at Ronnestad intervals. The standard version of this is 3 x (13 x 30s hard, 15s jog), 2 mins standing recoveries between sets. I tend to do more like 3 x (10 x 42s hard, 18s jog), just because of the layout of the section in the local park where I do it, but it has the same effect, with my heart rate only dropping a few beats between reps, and I end up doing 30 minutes of work at an intensity which would be absolutely brutal if done as a sustained run.
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Feb 2022
1:18pm, 22 Feb 2022
36,321 posts
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SPR
"but I'd be thinking others watching would assume I was 'gassed' and needed a rest even though its quite the opposite."
So do you run all your easy runs fast so people don't think you're slow? Doesn't really make much sense to be worried about what others think.
I'm quite resistant to the idea that that is more suited to MD. If you read the book, 800 is the one distance that extra anaerobic training is recommended for. It really isn't MD training or MD speeds.
30/ 30 is not what I'd suggest as threshold training. If you look at what threshold intervals look like, they are longish with short recovery.
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Feb 2022
1:40pm, 22 Feb 2022
1,970 posts
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Brunski
Thanks J2R, they sound like just the ticket and will definitely give them a try.
SPR - I may have been a little silly there, my 'normal' run from home is usually an out and back. I might be a little conscious of the walk breaks if, as I think it's saying l, I started running more/all of my easy/steady mileage as EIM running (certainly more conscious than if I found a suitable park to run them as intervals).
I find the 30/30s hit a few of the systems I think we benefit from. The VO2 max and form benefits of running at 3k pace but also for me, when factoring in the 30 secs easy, it seemed to often span my threshold so I was getting some benefits from working under/at/over that sort of HR.
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Feb 2022
6:17pm, 22 Feb 2022
36,322 posts
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SPR
I still don't get it Brunski. It's on the same spectrum as running faster when someone passes you in training.
Probably worth buying the book really. I wouldn't want to do lots of walking in training but 10-20 secs at the beginning and end of a rep is really not that much and is a nice reset on the longer reps.
I'm always skeptical of lab designed protocols and think there must be a reason it's not being used by elites (suspicion is short term study vs long term improvement in the real world). If they work for people that use them though, then it's done the job.
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Feb 2022
6:29pm, 22 Feb 2022
1,971 posts
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Brunski
It’s probably me being a bit too conscious of how I appear to others. In my head I was thinking how would I feel cruising past a runner then slowing to a walk, them passing me before I bomb past again, etc. I’d feel a little self conscious, especially if it was dark, or I kept passing a female runner who might get a little spooked by my actions not realising what I was doing.
Which is why I think I’d rather do it on a stretch of park if I were to try these.
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Feb 2022
6:41pm, 22 Feb 2022
36,323 posts
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SPR
Most runners understand how training looks though. Do what works for you though.
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Feb 2022
12:24pm, 24 Feb 2022
36,325 posts
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SPR
Done four days of easy intervals in a row (5x1000, 15x200, 6x1000, 10x400). Tomorrow will be back to a standard easy run with probably hill sprints (10-12 secs) after.
I think the fine tuning of speed technique is useful. I can certainly see how it's useful leading up to racing. Road relays is a key target for me every year so that's another reason I didn't want to just go back to easy running after my niggle. It's certainly meant I've got more speed in over the last three weeks than I would have while managing a niggle.
Saturday may be mile/ 2000 reps. Can imagine it's easy to crash and burn on those so got to be careful if I try them.
I think they are like having moderate days really in that it's not like an easy jog but it does seem to be repeatable with the caveat that you may need to be careful not to go over the edge especially when first starting (the book does warn about keeping pace relaxed and on the slower end where necessary to avoid this).
I think the actual easy intervals can easily be incorporated into a standard plan as they are a type of aerobic interval.
The bits that surprised me in reading the book is that unless I missed it (very possible given HM isn't something I'm doing) the long run for these are all below distance (which is workable but surprising for well trained runners). Even the shorter distance long runs look short at first glance. I guess the 6x1000s get you to about 9 miles and 2000s get you to around 11 miles so enough mileage for up to 10km.
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Feb 2022
2:34pm, 24 Feb 2022
4,095 posts
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J2R
That's something which struck me too, SPR. I get the impression Klaas feels that some of the benefits you get from long runs you also get from the EIM sessions. I have to say that I hope he's right, as the one area where I feel undertrained going into the HM in 10 days time is not having enough long runs under my belt this time. Having said that, I'm never convinced going above HM distance in HM training is that useful anyway. I reckon that a bunch of 11-12 mile runs containing some target pace miles late on probably do the trick.
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Feb 2022
5:37pm, 24 Feb 2022
36,327 posts
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SPR
J2R - Presumably you don't feel you need to run longer or you would have? Have to say I would have I mean I run a little more than HM on some of my winter longs and only race XC (around 10k) with 5000 being the longest planned summer racing.
Running longs of 15, 16, and 17 respectively on over three consecutive weekends last winter was what gave my the confidence to run a 1:26 HM (fast but not the limit) the following weekend as a solo training run as I had the confidence it wouldn't take too much out of me.
You have a lot more long distance experience than me though so maybe this is what it's related to for me (in the same way some people might need to do a bit more to be comfortable at track speeds if they aren't used to it).
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Feb 2022
5:50pm, 24 Feb 2022
4,097 posts
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J2R
SPR, no, it's just that things have got in the way of some of my planned long runs - I've been away for the weekend, for example, or I've suddenly had a load of work dumped on me which has meant I haven't had time. It's easy enough to get out the door and do a 400m session even when I'm busy, as I always feel I work more efficiently as a result of doing a run in the day, but a long run which takes a couple of hours is more problematic.
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Sep 2023