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Jul 2007
6:23pm, 26 Jul 2007
755 posts
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Girlie
A65, isn't he the one who advocates not doing more than necessary to achieve a goal? i.e why run 15 miles if you only want to race 13.
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Jul 2007
6:38pm, 26 Jul 2007
9,184 posts
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B.B.
I have been absent from this lovely thread for quite some time... mainly because I am an HRM convert and train to Parker's principles without even thinking about it now.
This will all have been said before by the luminaries Hendo and IanM (amongst others), but my 2p for what it's worth...
- Training to these principles allows me to do high mileage and not get injured.
- Training to these principles allows me to do high mileage without getting knackered, hence I can do quite a few high mileage weeks in a row without being forced to take a cutback week (although I do cutback weeks occassionally)
- Higher mileage and fewer injuries = better race performance. Period.
- The HRM makes sure I don't go too fast on my easy days (although I've discovered I really like 8:00-8:30 pace runs, and sometimes it feels like a big effort to run at 7:30-7:45 pace, where my 70% level is when I'm fit)
- The HRM makes sure I'm not a lazy git on my hard days when I may otherwise run just above normal pace. My HRM kicks my arse on hard days - telling me to work harder, when my legs think I already am hammering it. The fitter you get the harder it is to reach 90% WHR, but you have got to get there to push yourself and get the benefit.
So all in all it's about discipline - the HRM makes sure you're playing the game right
Having said this, I think it's most suitable for people who train 5+ times a week, as these are the candidates most likely to overtrain and flunk out. For people running 4 times a week or less, then quite frankly you can do hard sessions all the time, becuase your body will recover on the rest days. (I suspect Mr Caterpillar falls into this category).
NOW... you don't need an HRM to train sensibly, but it's a good check to make sure you are.
I think that's all...
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Jul 2007
6:43pm, 26 Jul 2007
756 posts
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Girlie
That makes sense BB- i'm hoping to move up to 4 sessions running a week. It has certainly made me run my LSRs slowly, where I wasn't before.
The only thing that still puzzles me is if I am runnign at a slower pace, to increase endurance etc how can I then just click to running up to 2 mins/mile quicker for a race? Does it just happen, and the increased endurance allows me to run faster for longer in a race?
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Jul 2007
6:57pm, 26 Jul 2007
9,185 posts
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B.B.
Yes, that's it. But it is also important to do the speedwork at a pace significantly faster than race pace as well.
Another thing though, is that so few people manage to do a marathon at their intended pace - more often than not they blow up and end up doing it way slower than intended. At worst, the HR training means you should be able to run all day (well... at least as long as a marathon) at your 70% WHR pace, and to be honest, that will result in a better marathon time than you probably thought possible when you first started out
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Jul 2007
8:31pm, 26 Jul 2007
9,435 posts
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BB, well said. 
I think Cat was arguing on two fronts really that served to confuse the issue.
There are two camps basically,
1. Training hard all the time gets results
2. Training hard/easy gets results
As you said BB people who train 5 times or more per week have to have the discipline of scheduling in easy runs in order to recover.
People who train say three times per week will get a natural rest between sessions because they don't run on their easy days. SOme of tehse folk may say they train hard all the time which of course they do BUT they get much needed rest. However, they don't get as many miles in so may not improve as quick as they would liketo...
Some people will train all week and train hard because that's what they believe gets results. They may also end up training in the grey area and not improving a great deal either because in fact what they THINK is hard aint hard enough!
As I have said all along, I train six days per week and would not be able to if I did not have easy sessions. The HRM ensures that I am in fact running easy enough on my easy days.
It also helps me to make sure I am running hard enough on my hard days. Well it used to, now I just run with the club on hard days and try to keep up with folk faster than me - guaranteed to get me up to 90%WHR
BB I also agree with what you say regarding marathon pace. When I did Prague and the heat was getting unbearable I was still able to hold a decent pace due to my training using the HRM that had made it possible for me to run at 8:15 ish pace on the flat at 70%WHR for longer. Without the training I doubt my time would have been as good as it turned out...
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Jul 2007
8:41pm, 26 Jul 2007
1,872 posts
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Caterpillar
Hey no - I'm not arguing on two fronts. I have a simple proposition: that your heart rate doesn't tell you anything useful about your optimal training intentisty.
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Jul 2007
9:03pm, 26 Jul 2007
1,873 posts
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Caterpillar
So - how about me (aged 49) vs Hendo (aged ??) vs IanM (aged 40-45) over any distance you like from 5k to half marathon.
Me - NO heart rate monitor my whole life.
Them - total heart rate monitor converts.
Shall we see who's fastest? If it's not me I promise I'll buy a heart rate monitor. If it's me then I get to ritually sacrifice THEIR heart rate monitors in any fashion I choose.
They can't complain I'm younger or boosted by drugs.
This isn't an all-comers challenge by the way. Some 26 year old heart rate enthusiast who once ran a four minute mile will challenge me to 800m and I'll lose.
I think BB's PB times are reflective of the fact that he runs an awful lot, and is twenty years younger than me.
(BTW I'm off on hols tomorrow so might not reply if either of them actually take up the challenge.)
(Also IanM and Hendo - it would be cheating to ditch your heart rate monitors and increase your training intensity in order to beat me.)
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Jul 2007
9:09pm, 26 Jul 2007
9,436 posts
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But I alraeady know you are a faster runner than I Cat. I have only been running for 2 years just over now...
Do you think that I train using a low HR all the time or something? If you do then no wonder you are confusing me...
Why on earth does anyone have to 'convince' YOU that using a HRM is useful anyway? All that matters is that I find it beneficial. I'm not telling people to use them. Make your own mind up like we all did...
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Jul 2007
9:20pm, 26 Jul 2007
8,228 posts
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Hendo
So after quite interesting discussion it's come down to willy-waving.
With the exception of someone who's faster than you.
Lets all just get naked and hunt instead.
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Jul 2007
9:22pm, 26 Jul 2007
235 posts
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Bennifer
Well said Ian! No-one needs to convince anyone of anything - be your own man! As I said earlier, no-one is ever going to force you (Cat) to use a HR monitor and I doubt very much whether anyone wants to race you!!
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