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Sep 2013
2:51pm, 8 Sep 2013
500 posts
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Revbarbarag
FR - when I started running I usually did 13.xx during training runs, although this quickly dropped to 12ish, and my first Parkrun (when I was still run-walking) was at 11:45 pace. I'd reached the stage where my 'usual' training pace was 11:xx, and then I started toying with different types of sessions, and HR training.
My 5K best works out to 9:57, my 10K to 11:05 (though I was 4 mins slower than anticipated owing to a stitch) - and now my training runs, going to HR are back to 13.xx and 14.xx.
I suppose my challenge is to not worry about 'only' running at 13.xx or 14.xx, as long as that's what I need to do to keep my HR in the right sort of area. I know I can run a lot quicker than that when I need to. I also know that 13.xx now is an awful lot more comfortable than it was when I was run-walking it 5 months ago.
It's only a week and a half till I hear from Cancer Research if they're offering me a Golden Bomd place for the VLM.... and only another couple of weeks after that till the ballot result is known. If I'm successful with either of those, the mind will be wonderfully concentrated! Pace won't matter. Regular running, total distance/time on feet and keeping healthy will.
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Sep 2013
3:17pm, 8 Sep 2013
16,756 posts
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FR
Rev, when Garmin obsessed I was horrified if I saw a 9.x now they are embraced. Getting the miles under your belt injury free cant be undervalued.
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Sep 2013
3:19pm, 8 Sep 2013
754 posts
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Canute
RevBarbara
You raise an interesting question about estimating race pace if you only jog in training. In Ed Whitlock’s case, he runs about 20 races per year and uses paces in short races to estimate his marathon pace. For example, a few years ago he used to consider that he needed to be running a 10K in less than 39 minutes to justify aiming for a sub-three hour marathon. This estimate is fairly well in line with estimates from pace calculators such as Macmillan’s. Two weeks before the Toronto Waterfront marathon in 2007 Ed ran a 10K race, but only managed 40:10. So he decided to aim for 4:25 /Km in the marathon (i.e. 3:07 for the full marathon.
I agree with Goofee’s and other comments about the fact that race pace seems easer in a race than in training. In part this is due to the excitement of the race, the benefit of spectators and other runners, but also in part due to the fact that even if one avoids serious excess stress during training, the body is somewhat stressed in the midst of a block of heavy training. The taper can make a substantial difference.
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Sep 2013
4:10pm, 8 Sep 2013
501 posts
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Revbarbarag
That's interesting.... who is Ed Whitlock, btw?
I'm now idly wondering what the difference is between 'building a base' and training for a marathon, especially a first marathon. Seems to me as if they both involve doing a shedload of slow miles.... is it that with marathon training you would have a specific schedule to build up to longest runs of a certain distance, a certain time before the race? Intermediate marathon plans tend to involve some sort of speed work, but there are plenty of beginner and which don't.
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Sep 2013
4:18pm, 8 Sep 2013
5,964 posts
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Bazoaxe
For my first mara I just did more miles and built the longest up over a period of time. I reckon I only ran 3/4 days per week then but I didnt keep any records.....probably 30-35 mpw
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Sep 2013
5:48pm, 8 Sep 2013
3,253 posts
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daviec
Base training can be enough to run a decent marathon. You can still add a marathon specific phase to the end of base training to be even better prepared. So there's a slight difference. Running lots of 'slow' (actually this should be 'easy', but folk seem to think the terms are interchangeable) miles is really what most people should be doing regardless of the race they are training for. I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of fetch users would benefit at all race distances from building a better base.
Plans are fine to get you started particularly if you need variety to keep you motivated. Personally I prefer to see the progress made over a period of months, and really enjoy being on an 'easy' run and hitting paces that would have had me blowing out of my arse a few weeks earlier. So if you want to use plans, use them. If you want to do HR training, then commit to it, and do it properly, and if you don't like it there's no harm done.
The problem with Hr training is that some folk are kind of using it, but not really. In my opinion the reason for monitoring HR is to ensure that you are training at the correct effort, and the idea behind that effort is to allow repeated training. I really don't see the point of staying below 70 or 75% if you only run 3 or 4 days a week. You already get 3 or 4 very easy (ie non running) days so you'd be as well looking at Runner's World and finding the latest, greatest fartlek/interval/tempo workout that will get you marathon fit in just 15 minutes, and do them on the days you do run.
Keeping most runs at low effort is to allow you to run more often, to increase the training stress through consistency rather than hard efforts. You still want to do some harder efforts each week, but again using HR to maintain the correct effort for that session. That's where HR training comes into it's own. It's not the low HR training that works, it's the volume of training you do when you keep the effort low enough to manage it. Once you get yourself fit enough then you can start to introduce some really hard efforts. Intervals, and tempo etc. Personally I feel like I'm nowhere near that stage just now.
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Sep 2013
6:30pm, 8 Sep 2013
16,759 posts
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FR
Great post, daviec 
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Sep 2013
7:53pm, 8 Sep 2013
502 posts
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Revbarbarag
Interesting.....
My overall plan is 4 runs and 2 gym sessions per week with one rest day. And I'd thought of tacking a mile or two of treadmill running onto the end of my gym session as a way of sneaking more running into my week.
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Sep 2013
8:01pm, 8 Sep 2013
16,761 posts
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FR
Rev, although most seem to ignore it, & I definitely did. Increasing mileage slowly week by week and having cutback weeks will ensure you don't get overstressed. It hasn't happened for years, but I used to suffer from being unable to sleep when I'd over done.
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Sep 2013
8:07pm, 8 Sep 2013
650 posts
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Moleshome
Rev, you might be interested in a bit of software called SportTracks. On top of the basic programme there are a whole stack of plugins available, there's one called training load which assigns a stress score to each of your training activities and allows you to track fitness against stress. I've found it useful as an indicator of when I'm pushing too hard/not enough.
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