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Sep 2019
8:17am, 26 Sep 2019
13,296 posts
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Homer
This is all very sad and makes me ashamed to be British
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Sep 2019
8:18am, 26 Sep 2019
29,621 posts
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LindsD
Yup. Not for the first time.
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Sep 2019
8:24am, 26 Sep 2019
32,474 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
You guys need to read or watch some other sources of political or public opinion.
The only people likely to riot are people who believe that "Remainers are stealing our Brexit". These people are angry and feel something is being taken away from them or withheld from them. And Boris Johnson and others on the Righteous Right are stoking these fires, playing to this crowd and doing so very effectively.
The people who will riot are these angry people with very simple, sound bite views. "They [who? Remainers? Judges. Scientists. The EU?] are stopping us."
The angry liberal middle class might seethe, but we'll do it quietly from our comfortable homes and offices.
I am very, very worried. Corbyn is right in one thing - Boris Johnson is dangerous.
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Sep 2019
8:32am, 26 Sep 2019
2,335 posts
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B Rubble
You are right HG. Difficult to read but there is a lot of support for Boris.
These are worrying times stoked by dangerous rhetoric. You don't need to look much further than the right wing press to see where the "people against the establishment" line that Boris and his ERG colleagues are singing to is coming from:
Sun: "COME & HAVE A BO Boris Johnson blasts MPs for ‘not trusting the people’ with Brexit election."
Mail: "More than half of British voters want an election NOW as they blast 'Establishment plot' to block Brexit."
Telegraph: "Boris Johnson says Parliament 'must stand aside or face day of reckoning' and accuses Jeremy Corbyn of 'running scared'."
Does anyone else think that politics crossed a line yesterday? Very angry on both sides. It doesn't seem so long ago when it was difficult to separate the policies of each of the parties.
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Sep 2019
8:33am, 26 Sep 2019
4,167 posts
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1step2far
Happy, you have just written what i've wanted to say for a while and far better than I can. Johnsons fans are many where I live. He's seen as both a hero and victim. He'll get Brexit done but everyone is against him poor, sweet soul that he is. They are very angry that their vote isn't being heard and completed.
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Sep 2019
8:38am, 26 Sep 2019
8,181 posts
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simbil
Isn't this all just more stuff from the Trump playbook though?
When you have some bad results - say something that will steal the headlines and play well to your core support. The more you want to bury something, the more outrageous you are.
BoJo has failed at every turn so far, Gove was caught lying that "industry is ready" for no deal - these are the stories and this is what the opposition needs to shine a light on. Letting BoJo set the narrative and agenda is a huge mistake and will just play to his getting the job done vs the system bullshit.
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Sep 2019
8:52am, 26 Sep 2019
24,121 posts
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Wriggling Snake
Yes. Johnson is apeing Farage and Trump. Let's set up huge arguments, let's play it out in the gutter knowing full well the press is mainly behind him...and unfortunately the Brexit vote is hardening as a result, even the acceptance of a no deal.
All very awful.
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Sep 2019
9:05am, 26 Sep 2019
32,475 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Yes simbil, it is same as Trump. But no less dangerous for that. Look at how successful Trump has been in the US in reversing international agreements (Iran nuclear, climate protocols etc.) and domestic legislation (healthcare, erosion of land protection, reversal of data privacy, failing to tackle gun crime and drugs etc.) and he is STILL revered by his core voters. And untouchable despite proof for wrongdoing, lies and possibly criminal activity. Impeachment proceedings may just bolster support from his hard core.
There is no equivalent in our opposition. Being reasonable, collaborative, measured etc. are interpreted by the supporters of Populist politicians as dithering, using sly complications to hinder a simple objective, a conspiracy, anti-democratic (i.e. not doing what we, the majority (51.x%) want) etc.
Opposition needs to find a figurehead to stand up for reason. But to put it in an "unreasonable" way! Charisma, soundbites, simple statements, easy to understand policies or objectives. Unfortunately Corbyn isn't it.
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Sep 2019
9:06am, 26 Sep 2019
4,168 posts
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1step2far
Yes, I had a long argument with a leaver who said they voted for no deal. The swore blind there was never any talk of a deal just 'leave'. Even after I sent clips showing Johnson claiming we would get the easiest deal in history and the google analytics image showing that no one searched for no deal until after the vote. She still said she voted no deal. All reasoning has now left the situation.
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Sep 2019
9:21am, 26 Sep 2019
15,269 posts
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Chrisull
I've just had to stop following Iain Martin on Twitter (one of those "soft" Tory commentators that I try to follow for balance on what the other side was saying) as he was lauding Johnson's speech last night and the bits on Jo Cox. You look at the Brexit party MEPs (Claire Fox the ex revolutionary communist), saying ah but we're the ones who were called xenophobic and racist and had death threats first. Like some schoolyard pissing contest.
What is it with the white lower middle class of this country at the moment, the self pity, the woe is me rhetoric? Oh the white race is in danger boohoo, never mind we spent the last 300 year subjugating half the non-white world and say "that's just ancient history" any time you remind someone of it.
Jo Cox was a Labour MP let us remind you. I don't recall any Tory or Brexit Party MEPs being stabbed. I don't recall people being arrested for conspiracy to murder another MP (Rosie Cooper). I don't recall the FBI/CIA and MI5 saying the most dangerous terrorism threats are from the left and embittered remainers.
There was clear racism and xenophobia present during the Leave referendum and afterwards. Own it. Stop doubling down on it. I despise the alpha male rhetoric that abounds at the moment. I can't applaud Barry Sheerman last night, (althouigh he was spot on), because we are being goaded. Calm measured debate. Let Johnson dangle and October 31st pass. Then a unity government to call a second referendum and a general election to elect a government to implement the mandate. If it's no deal and Johnson then so be it, because at least I'll know it's time to leave the country.
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Fantasy General Election
Jul 2024
