Polarized training

2 lurkers | 91 watchers
SPR
Feb 2022
12:59pm, 21 Feb 2022
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SPR
J2R
Feb 2022
1:13pm, 21 Feb 2022
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J2R
SPR, from the article mentioned:

When Seiler advocates polarized training, he’s talking about entire workouts: “I class a session as either hard or easy,” he told Runner’s World in 2019. “If I do an interval session, even though the effort and heart rate will fluctuate, it’s hard. If you run four times a week, no matter the length, if one run is hard then that’s a 75/25 split.”
SPR
Feb 2022
1:21pm, 21 Feb 2022
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SPR
I think it comes back to all interval sessions being hard in what Seiler does though. If you look at continuous running as the opposite of intermittent training, it's obvious that either can be hard, easy or in-between.

This is the problem with simplifying what you observe into a formula like 80/20 and then basing training advice on the simplification.

The athletes observed weren't simply doing easy and then hard intervals in the proportion of the formula. There's a lot more nuance to their training that happens to fit into the formula.
J2R
Feb 2022
1:34pm, 21 Feb 2022
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J2R
Well, yes. As I said, I regard my EIM sessions as being effectively like easy sessions in the polarised training model, even though strictly according to Seiler's own terms they're not. The whole thing is, as you say, a lot more nuanced.
SPR
Feb 2022
2:28pm, 21 Feb 2022
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SPR
TBF to Seiler I'm pretty sure he wouldn't see easy intervals as hard (whether he'd see it as easy is another matter). When he says intervals he doesn't mean intervals in the same way.

If we ever get to a point where people realise saying I did intervals is like saying I did a continuous run (in that without a bit of detail it tells you nothing), communication will be a lot better for it.
J2R
Feb 2022
3:04pm, 21 Feb 2022
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J2R
SPR, agreed.
Feb 2022
8:07pm, 21 Feb 2022
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Kieren
That outside online seems a bit outdated - Seiler changed his assessment or updated the split to not categorise a whole workout as hard or easy. It's in this thread somewhere in 2021 Half 2 I think
May 2022
2:17pm, 22 May 2022
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Canute
The evidence supporting pyramidal v polarised programmes is ambiguous. However there is little clear evidence that modest amounts of threshold running are either less effective or more harmful than small amounts of high intensity, so it is unlikely there is much difference in effectiveness between pyramidal and polarised.

It is clear that widely differing training regimes can work for optimising VO2max and for achieving top-class performance. A few elites have become world-record holders with predominantly intense programmes. For non-elites, it is difficult to achieve the resilience required for long distances without a lot of low intensity work.

With regards to longevity as a runner, on balance I think the evidence suggest that even for elites, duration at the top is likely to be longer with a programme that includes a substantial amount of low intensity training.
May 2022
3:09pm, 22 May 2022
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Chrisull
Canute - while you're hear, I assume you saw Ed Whitlock's M70-74 marathon record got broken by a Dutch runner? Any ideas about his training program?

https://runningmagazine.ca/sections/runs-races/dutch-runner-breaks-ed-whitlocks-m70-marathon-world-record/#:~:text=Over%20the%20weekend%20at%20the,set%20the%20M70%2B%20world%20record.
May 2022
3:09pm, 22 May 2022
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Chrisull
here not hear!

Tries the link again:
https://runningmagazine.ca/sections/runs-races/dutch-runner-breaks-ed-whitlocks-m70-marathon-world-record/#:~:text=Over%20the%20weekend%20at%20the,set%20the%20M70%2B%20world%20record

About This Thread

Maintained by Canute
Polarised training is a form of training that places emphasis on the two extremes of intensity. There is a large amount of low intensity training (comfortably below lactate threshold) and an appreciable minority of high intensity training (above LT).

Polarised training does also include some training near lactate threshold, but the amount of threshold training is modest, in contrast to the relatively high proportion of threshold running that is popular among some recreational runners.

Polarised training is not new. It has been used for many years by many elites and some recreational runners. However, it has attracted great interest in recent years for two reasons.

First, detailed reviews of the training of many elite endurance athletes confirms that they employ a polarised approach (typically 80% low intensity, 10% threshold and 10% high intensity. )

Secondly, several scientific studies have demonstrated that for well trained athletes who have reached a plateau of performance, polarised training produces greater gains in fitness and performance, than other forms of training such as threshold training on the one hand, or high volume, low intensity training on the other.

Much of the this evidence was reviewed by Stephen Seiler in a lecture delivered in Paris in 2013 .
vimeo.com

In case you cannot access that lecture by Seiler in 2013, here is a link to his more recent TED talk.

ted.com
This has less technical detail than his 2013 talk, but is nonetheless a very good introduction to the topic. It should be noted that from the historical perspective, Seiler shows a US bias.

Here is another useful video by Stephen Seiler in which he discusses the question of the optimum intensity and duration of low intensity sessions. Although the answer ‘depends on circumstances’ he proposes that a low intensity session should be long enough to reach the point where there are detectable indications of rising stress (either the beginning of upwards drift of HR or increased in perceived effort). If longer than this, there is increasing risk of damaging effects. A session shorter than this might not be enough to produce enough stress to achieve a useful training effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXc474Hu5U


The coach who probably deserves the greatest credit for emphasis on the value of low intensity training was Arthur Lydiard, who coached some of the great New Zealanders in the 1960's and Scandinavians in the 1970’s. One of his catch-phrases was 'train, don't strain'. However Lydiard never made it really clear what he meant by ‘quarter effort’. I have discussed Lydiard’s ideas on several occasions on my Wordpress blog. For example: canute1.wordpress.com

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