The Sub 3:15 Marathon Thread
333 watchers
Nov 2023
7:16pm, 19 Nov 2023
43,278 posts
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SPR
Posted this the last time stride length came up as a point of discussion. news.umich.edu Elites stride length comes from air time and less ground time (so basically power (work done quicker)) not being especially more flexible than non-elites. |
Nov 2023
9:11pm, 19 Nov 2023
22,649 posts
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larkim
Full report text and data sheet here if anyone is interested in the LT / VO2Max stuff. drive.google.com Not read it all properly yet, but interesting is the recommendation to spend more time in their defined Z3 which is what I would normally avoid as being "grey zone" stuff. It's a recommendation to go into that zone with a degree of specificity of course, not just to run in that zone willy nilly. |
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Nov 2023
9:19pm, 19 Nov 2023
43,279 posts
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SPR
It all depends on their training philosophy. I'm about to read but it sounds like threshold train based on your post.
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Nov 2023
9:33pm, 19 Nov 2023
3,550 posts
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tipsku
Thank you for sharing, larkim. I went through the results and the discussion and it seems that they use 2 different ways to determine your zones. In the HR and speed chart, they have 6 zones and in the discussion, they only talk about 3 zones, probably below LT1, between LT1 and LT2 and above LT2? So when you say they recommend more running in Z3, they mean the Z3 Aerobic conditioning on the first sheet? That's where I usually train when I get more marathon race specific because I need that zone for a marathon raced to the best of my abilities. After a base building or recovery period, I may run in Z3 first before I venture higher into Z4 and Z5. Later in training (when not training for a marathon, I use it mainly as a transition zone between Z2 and Z4, e.g. in progression runs, 15 min Z2, 15 min Z3, 15 min Z4. |
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Nov 2023
9:33pm, 19 Nov 2023
43,280 posts
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SPR
Report narrative all seems sensible to me. How much different would things be for you by following it? I thought you did some regular threshold already though or were you doing it above the zone they recommend? I quite like the recommendation to do some tempo at the end of some longer runs. Seems sensible to give it a go for a few weeks and see what happens. |
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Nov 2023
9:37pm, 19 Nov 2023
43,281 posts
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SPR
Sorry, yes I should use the terminology they used as Tipsku said, it aerobic conditioning. I read it as pushing the threshold from below.
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Nov 2023
9:39pm, 19 Nov 2023
43,282 posts
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SPR
Pushing the threshold up from below. It's interesting that threshold is a very small zone. Also interesting that the aerobic conditioning zone tops out at 90%. |
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Nov 2023
9:40pm, 19 Nov 2023
3,551 posts
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tipsku
Looking at the Excel file (that took a bit to load), it appears that their Z3 is basically just under your LT2 of 165 so that's where I have Z4 in Garmin and their Z4 is just above LT2 which is already Z5 for me. So Garmin's Z5 is divided in 3 zones in their recommendation. I programmed the formula from the 80/20 website in my Garmin based on my LT2 and that has 4 zones below that and only 1 above it. For the faster race paces, I go by power/pace, not HR.
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Nov 2023
9:45pm, 19 Nov 2023
43,283 posts
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SPR
For comparison these are the polarised training 5 zone model from 2014 (From Stephen Seiler presentation back when it was 80/10/10 in the research). My description on it says it's moved on with a video link but I can't remember the new zones. Maybe it's what Tipsku has. |
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Nov 2023
9:53pm, 19 Nov 2023
3,552 posts
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tipsku
SPR, thank you for that chart. It looks somewhat similar to what I have but it appears to be based on % of HRmax and not LT2. The zones I use are from this website: 8020endurance.com Using Garmin to set these zones, I have to set my Z3 as their X, the zone I try to avoid unless I'm in marathon training. I don't discriminate different zones above my LT (their zones Y, 4, and 5), it's all Z5 and I use power, pace and RPE to distinguish between different intensities (mile pace, 5k pace, 10k pace, etc.). |
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