10:45am
10:45am, 27 Feb 2025
5,851 posts
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J2R
Dave W wrote: It appears that fundamentalist Christians aren’t really very christian. If they will vote in their millions for a lying thieving divorced philandering sex criminal then they really need to go back to Sunday school and have another read of the bible. I always think this about the American Christian nationalists. I suspect they have a different take on the Good Samaritan parable - the real heroes there are the priest and the Levite, and the Good Samaritan was a sucker, a loser, encouraging dependency culture. |
10:50am
10:50am, 27 Feb 2025
47,170 posts
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SPR
@larkim you're determined to argue the other side aren't you? Trump's behaviour has been well documented. If you think it was reasonable then there's nothing really to discuss.
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10:51am
10:51am, 27 Feb 2025
18,518 posts
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jda
I think it’s got a lot to do with smiting unbelievers too. Though isn’t that Old Testament and therefore not specifically Christian? Is there a theologian in the house?
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10:56am
10:56am, 27 Feb 2025
28,317 posts
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Dave W
And whilst I am in no short measure biased against Trump for all the reasons that have been mentioned time and again on this thread, I am not automatically biased against him. I am biased against him on this subject of Ukraine because he has acted terribly. He is a bully of the worst kind and has shown that since his re inauguration, and he panders to all the basest instincts of his “people” If one day he does something good or kind then I’m happy to say so. But sure as shit this wasn’t it. |
11:02am
11:02am, 27 Feb 2025
2,718 posts
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MudMeanderer
Vance got called out by the pope for misrepresentation of scripture, and under Catholic doctrine the pope by definition cannot be wrong. I'm not sure there is much correlation between what's in the bible and what they think or want there to be in the bible.
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11:14am
11:14am, 27 Feb 2025
47,171 posts
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SPR
The bible (old and new testament) has a lot of stuff in it and you can use it to justify most points of view. The main denomination have a lot of blood on their hand through the centuries.
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11:26am
11:26am, 27 Feb 2025
26,751 posts
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larkim
SPR wrote: @larkim you're determined to argue the other side aren't you? Trump's behaviour has been well documented. If you think it was reasonable then there's nothing really to discuss. Not entirely, but I am conscious that I can sometimes come across that way. Maybe I've got more tolerance for aggressive bargaining tactics than others. Maybe I'm looking at whatever Trump says publicly as being just the usual diatribes that he can't help himself with, and making an assumption / presumption that behind closed doors the real negotiations and deals are happening with more maturity and diplomacy. This article euractiv.com presents a view from a similar perspective, though perhaps less concerned with trying to justify the means by which Trump operates. But I think if you ask the "man in the street" what Trump is doing on minerals they would tell you "he's insisting the US gets all of Ukraine's mineral reserves" and the truth is actually quite a long way away from this. US investment in Ukraine was Zelenskyy's way of getting the US to have a firm and long lasting commitment / interest in Ukraine's future; perhaps that was Zelenskyy smartly recognising that that's what motivates US presidents more than simply the moral rights / wrongs of defending an ally? |
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11:35am
11:35am, 27 Feb 2025
47,172 posts
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SPR
larkim wrote: that was Zelenskyy smartly recognising that that's what motivates US presidents more than simply the moral rights / wrongs of defending an ally? Recognising what motivated Trump. Ukraine were well supported under Biden and it was the threat of Russia doing something stupid that stopped them going further. |
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11:48am
11:48am, 27 Feb 2025
5,852 posts
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J2R
larkim wrote: But I think if you ask the "man in the street" what Trump is doing on minerals they would tell you "he's insisting the US gets all of Ukraine's mineral reserves" and the truth is actually quite a long way away from this. US investment in Ukraine was Zelenskyy's way of getting the US to have a firm and long lasting commitment / interest in Ukraine's future; perhaps that was Zelenskyy smartly recognising that that's what motivates US presidents more than simply the moral rights / wrongs of defending an ally? I suspect Trump thinks the US is getting all of the Ukraine's mineral reserves, too, and that he has 'beaten' Zelenskyy in a 'deal'. Zelenskyy has been smart enough to let him believe that. |
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11:51am
11:51am, 27 Feb 2025
26,752 posts
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larkim
^^^Exactly.
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