Cricket Thread

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SPR Jan 2022 6:24pm, 6 Jan 2022 36,096 posts	0 SPR Re Archer, would need to go back but seem to remember there being some talk about some racism in some of the response to certain struggles he had at the time it happened. Can't remember whether they were with foundation. Don't think the bowling treatment was that. I do remember others saying at the time he was being bowled too much (think TRO was pretty vocal about it) so wasn't hindsight.
SPR Jan 2022 6:26pm, 6 Jan 2022 36,097 posts	0 SPR Ben Stokes avg 41 at 5 in 26 tests. espncricinfo.com
SPR Jan 2022 6:27pm, 6 Jan 2022 36,098 posts	0 SPR Innings list: stats.espncricinfo.com
bonners Jan 2022 6:37pm, 6 Jan 2022 2,309 posts	0 bonners Re Archer, would need to go back but seem to remember there being some talk about some racism in some of the response to certain struggles he had at the time it happened. Can't remember whether they were with foundation. Don't think the bowling treatment was that. I do remember others saying at the time he was being bowled too much (think TRO was pretty vocal about it) so wasn't hindsight. I think the racist treatment was more to do with the treatment he got from the press than within the camp iirc. Basically accused of being being lazy with very thinly veiled allusions to his heritage as to the reason why. But I don't recall any racism within the camp, just incompetence.
rf_fozzy Jan 2022 6:40pm, 6 Jan 2022 16,030 posts	0 rf_fozzy I think it's the 2021 average of 21 that's the current issue with Stokes.... And even that decent average of 41 is a bit low for a 3-4-5. If you think back to 2010-11, we had Cook, Strauss, Trott, Pietersen, Bell, then Collingwood and Prior. All of whom had an average in the high 40s/low 50s... That's the difference. Stokes would be an outstanding 6 or 7 I think, but he's too high at 5, because we need another batter of Root's calibre there. The opener issue is, of course, the major one, but the fact that 3/5/6 are also ropey shouldn't be overlooked either. Stokes is better than Flintoff ever was with the bat (if slightly less good with the ball), but Flintoff was a definite 7/8 and he always batted there (more or less) for that reason.
rf_fozzy Jan 2022 6:42pm, 6 Jan 2022 16,031 posts	0 rf_fozzy Also I'm never convinced that having an allrounder come in top 5 is a great idea if they do a lot of bowling. Kallis did it for SA, but even towards the end of the career, he was bowling far less. Given that in this England side you're walking in at 30-3 quite regularly, it means you're simply not giving Stokes any kind of rest whatsoever. that can't be good physically or mentally.
Bazoaxe Jan 2022 7:08pm, 6 Jan 2022 21,643 posts	0 Bazoaxe Broad seems to bowl Better when he has a point to prove. If he is a regular pick he doesn’t always have the same fire in his belly.
SPR Jan 2022 7:09pm, 6 Jan 2022 36,099 posts	0 SPR That does ring a bell. rf_fozzy Sceptical of 41 being low for number 5/6. Any stats to back that up? I see Bell averaged 48 at 5 (overall 42)which is very impressive but 41 seems pretty decent? The average this year is a this year issue rather than terminal I'd say. Don't think Stokes should be judged based on the others in the order. No rest is a good point but Stokes is a better batsman than bowler (IMO but some may argue that).
SPR Jan 2022 7:17pm, 6 Jan 2022 36,100 posts	0 SPR Number 5s in the 21st Century: stats.espncricinfo.com
NDWDave Jan 2022 7:22pm, 6 Jan 2022 16,297 posts	0 NDWDave Stokes averaging 3 less than KP I didn’t realise how well Thorpe played is his last few years